MovieChat Forums > Heavenly Creatures (1994) Discussion > Honora was not portrayed as sympathetic ...

Honora was not portrayed as sympathetic until the end! *spoilers*


I disliked Pauline's mother's character, Honora, thoroughly until well, you know.

She started out as a nice mother, but once her daughter dared to do what ALL teenagers do....rebel...she flips out!!! I am referring to the scene where Pauline's dad catches her in bed with the boarder.
She acts like she caught Pauline tormenting kittens or lighting fires!!! Honora became a horrid wretch in just one scene. Not to mention a little of a hypocrite.

NOTHING justifies murder, I don't want anyone getting me wrong!! But she just should have let Pauline go live with the Hulmes. The two of them were making each other miserable to begin with.



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Yeah, she was being hypocritical, because she wasn't married to her father and she ran off with him and had 3 kids! But still, all parents want their children to be better than them, and it was her own private shame and embarrasement that drove her to act that way. Not to mention the rigidness of the time. Society was strict about morals, and marriage was an institution held very sacred within those morals. To be with someone and not be married cost you not only YOUR reputation, but that of your family's and maybe even your social standing, which they didn't have much of to begin with.You were also shunned from all good society, and your chances of being apart of it were shot to hell. And you know just as well as I do that living with the Hulmes was out of the question because homosexuality, which both sets of parents thought they were engaging in, was a "disease" at the time, a contemptable one at that, and they didn't want to risk spreading it, or making it any worse than the psychiatrist made them think it already was. And again, society played a major part in it, because the same consequences and repurcussions applied to one not married also applied to those found to be gay.

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very good answer- i was going to say something like that but not as good. lol

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You just have to see the context. Yes indeed Honora wasn't married and probably went through hell, in those days, trying to get a socially respectable life.

She just wants het daughter to have a better life. And there is indeed a difference with eloping at 17 and having sex at 14. Expecially in a society where morals are kept high.

I really felt sorry for Honora, mothers aren't perfect either, becaus I do get the feeling in the movie that she loves het daughter en only wants what's best for her.

To be honest, I didn't like Pauline much. I little psychopath if you ask me. If she can write about murdering her mom and saying something like 'strangely I feel no remourse', the there must be something seriously wrong with her.

Grtz.

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I'm not saying I think what they did was right, because I don't. But Honora was awful in her own ways too. Besides the things I mentioned, she put her daughter down quite often:
"These stories! You don't think anyone will want to publish them!" plus jumping all over her for nothing. like taking too long in the bath.
Nothing justifes murder, and some great points were made about the worry over homosexuality, but Honora really should have let her daughter go live with the Hulmes so BOTH of them could find some peace.


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She wasn't jumping down her throat OVER the stories. Her grades were slipping in school, and she attributed the stories as being the cause, as she always somewhere writing. Plus, she was appalled at how she let her grades and studies suffer, because Pauline had always been an A student. And the bath scene, well, she WAS being inconsiderate. She knew the bathing schedule for the boarders, and they all probably (family included) had a set time to be out of the bathroom. Now, by taking away some of Larry's time, that probably subsequently led to the rest of the boarders and family's bath time being cut short that day. Poor Larry was probably late for work that day. And as for you going on about her living with the Hulmes, you seem to forget, the Hulmes didn't WANT her living with them, Especially Mr. Hulme, who blamed Pauline for the disturbing changes in Juliet, despite her saying they did. In her warped mind, her being welcomed to Ilam all the time, and being able to spend the night anytime she wanted, was probably an unasked invitation to live with them whenever she wanted.

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I agree with redmama, why should she go let her stay with the Hulme's when they didn't even want her? And I really doubt that if YOU had a fifteen year old daughter that you would just let her go live with a couple that you didn't know very well, and it wouldn't have helped the situation anyway. By the way I don't mean to be nitpicky but the boarders name was Laurie not Larry.

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You sure? Because I always thought that was the way new zealanders say Larry.

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No it's Laurie, it says so on the official website and it says Laurie here on the cast list.

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Honora really should have let her daughter go live with the Hulmes so BOTH of them could find some peace.



That's ridiculous. Pauline was an overdramatic brat already obsessed with Juliet. And you think having her live with Juliet was the best thing for Paul? It would have been better if the two girls had never met to begin with.

Honora had to take in and wait on boarders just to make ends meet, let alone the family members she was expected to feed and clean up after. YOU try living in a one-bathroom place with several people. Pauline was monopolizing the bathroom just to hang out and write. She was a selfish and self-centered snot.




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WyzeGal # 10

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From what I recall reading, Honora in real life was known to be strict and tough- not exactly lovey-dovey like Mrs. Hulme, reading poetry to her daughter and brushing her hair. In that aspect, we can see that the film was rather honest in trying to get across Mrs. Parker's character as thoroughly as possible.

As for the scene with Pauline in bed with the boarder, most mothers would feel the same way, not just Honora. However, I bet that she knew quite well what a stigma it was to bare four children out of wedlock, and she did not want Pauline to get pregnant and continue the same cycle.

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Everyone dies, but not everyone gets to live. -- The Ice Queen

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I think the "unfairness" of Honora is the way Pauline saw her...I don't think she was *that* unreasonable in truth. The scenes where Pauline blanked out to her mothers ranting and showed H's face up close made it seem terrible from Pauline's POV. In truth, I just think Honora was very worried about the changes she was witnessing in her daughter and desperately wanted her to pull herself together, be "normal" and make something of her life.

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She was 14 years old and it was the early fifties. Any mother would have reacted like that. Besides, she also had dropped her grades, was having eating desorders and overall was not her usual self.

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You have a point, fiatlux. What I thought was awful is that they condemned her after finding her in bed with John, but at the time she didn't even know what sex was and thought she'd lost her virginity just by sharing a bed with him. They should've asked her questions about what happened before going apesh!t on her. It sounds as if Pauline was sexually naive. Trying to keep children sexually ignorant usually results in the parents' worst fears coming to pass--the children will have sex because they're ill-informed. I certainly don't think Honora deserved to die, but she could've been a better parent to Pauline. Although she probably didn't want her daughter to bear the shame of having illegitimate children, she could've dealt with that fear differently.

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I know! They just assumed Pauline had sex with the boy without even asking her if she knew what sex was, or anything that had happened.
They didn't even give her a chance to tell her side of the story!

-Amanda

"She will remember your heart when men are fairy tales in storybooks written by rabbits"

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You have the same problem as the OP. You either forget that this movie takes place in the 1950s or you don't know what attitudes towards sex and sexuality were in the 1950s.

"Molestation" wasn't the thing in the 1950s that it is now. You're looking at this from the perspective of today, which does not work when you're looking at the past.

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I thought that both Paulines parents were basically good people. I don't agree with their reaction to finding John in her bed but realistically its how most parents would have responded back then. They were not unusually harsh.

Other than that I don't think she was bad at all. Pauline was behaving like a brat and Honora was just trying to get her to grow up. I also agree with what Gina Riley Admirer said about Honora being depicted from Paulines point of view.

I certainly wouldn't have let my 15 year old daughter go to live abroad with another family because we didn't get along even if the family - unlike the Hulmes - were willing.

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I think your description of Pauline's parents as "basically good" is quite pertinent.

One thing that just struck me about Honora's reaction sort of relates to the class divide. Compared with the Hulmes (glamorous mother, educated father in a very upper middle class university job, Juliet - even if it was due to illness - has been sent all over the world to improve her health) Honora and Herbert's family life is really mundane, and I think Honora seems conscious of that. They obviously aren't well-off, they have to take in lodgers to make ends meet (which probably means the children are sharing bedrooms so the lodgers get a room, even if they too are sharing) - not things the Hulmes have to worry about.

I think perhaps what Honora is worried about is that, by escaping into this fantasy world, Pauline is going to forget the practical side of life. It's a while since I watched the film but I recall her being worried that her daughter wouldn't get her school certificate, which would give her a recognised basic qualification and might have enabled her to get some kind of scholarship into a college or university (or perhaps just a better paying school leavers' level job). I'm not quite sure how the New Zealand university system worked back then, but - assuming Pauline was bright enough to get into university - I can't see how her parents could have afforded to fund that, unless she had a scholarship.

I also recall from some background reading that Honora and Herbert met when she was very young, so perhaps she went straight from school to common-law marriage to pregnancy (in whichever order) to a life of housework and the day-to-day struggle to make ends meet, and simply wanted more for her daughter than that.

In some ways, I have a lot of sympathy for Honora. When you look at the four parents in the story, she is pretty much at the bottom of the list in terms of social position. Herbert's got a manual job, Juliet's mother is this semi-socialite stay-at-home wife who has no need to work and Dr. Hulme is right at the top, with his qualifications and his academic job. So maybe Honora is stuck between wanting more for her daughter and feeling socially inferior to Juliet's parents?


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um you have to remember the time period and also the fact that they lived in a more rural area. Finding out your 14 year old daughter was in bed with some guy in 1950s rural new zealand is not something that is just ignored. it wouldn't even be ignored today

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I would have at least asked my daughter (and the boy) what really happened.

If they're innocent (which Pauline and John, at least at that point, were), they'd tell the truth and then I would have had "the talk" with my daughter.

They really should have listened to her side of the story.
I think what happened next (Pauline really having sex with John) was partially their fault.

-Amanda

"She will remember your heart when men are fairy tales in storybooks written by rabbits"

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Outside of public service announcements, parents usually aren't such paragons of patience and wisdom.

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Even if they had convinced everyone that Honora's death was an accident,I don't believe they would have taken the girls together to South Africa.She just focused her hate on her mother as a desperate act to try to control something she couldn't.She should have married the boarder and as a wife gotten a passport and joined her friend in South Africa.

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Honora was not a perfect parent, thats for sure.
She made a lot of mistakes.

That being said, she did love her daughter and was trying her best, the only way she knew how.

It was also a different time period back then.

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She was 14 and mentally ill. It's not like she was incredibly reasonable and rational.

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Historical perspective. You lack it. People didn't have "the talk" in the 1950s. Sexuality was NOT something people discussed at the time. Go watch Kinsey to better understand societal views of sexuality during the period.

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I loved her character. She was strict and very flawed but it was clear she loved her daughter. I think it's the fact that the movie shows her flaws that makes her so human and the ending such a tragedy. I even got the sense that, had things ended differently, she might come around in a few years and she and her daughter might enjoy a wonderful relationship, which really puts the sting in the final act tragedy for me.

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The hypocrite thing is hard because what parent is perfect? And you want your kid to not do the things you did, or suffer the consequences like you did, or ruin their reputation like you did yours etc. Just because a parent did something stupid doesn't mean a kid should be like, "I can do it, too!" The whole POINT is to say you know, I did something stupid and I don't want to see you have to go through that so trust me when I tell you not to do it. But kids never believe the same thing will happen to them and they always do it anyway. They have to learn those lessons firsthand because they will always wonder why their parent is telling them not to. (Even if it's explicit how it DIDN'T WORK OUT for the parent.)That is what makes teens so stupid sometimes. Their brains just don't always function properly (it's normal at that age.)


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