MovieChat Forums > Philadelphia (1994) Discussion > Miller being Black-American

Miller being Black-American

posted 11 years ago by SeasonalAffective
25 replies | jump to latest

I always thought it was interesting that Miller, who is a minority (being Black-American), was never called out for his prejudice.

There could have been potential for some interesting dialogue whereby Miller was talking negatively about gays (which he did several times in the film), and someone could have called him out and compared that to people speaking negatively about Blacks.

Strangely, nothing like that happens, and fellow characters in the movie not only don't call him out on it, but join in (though perhaps this was the point; to show that there's a strong anti-gay bias in American culture, among all spectrums and people). It's as if the Miller character was written as a WASP.

[–] diorlouboutin 11 years ago

I'm not sure why you seem to be so caught up on making a parallel between being black and gay. A lot of black people don't even buy that analogy, and no one seems to ever try to make that point when homophobic white women are discussed.

[–] SeasonalAffective 11 years ago

I'm not sure why you seem to be so caught up on making a parallel between being black and gay

I'm not sure why you classify my post as being "so caught up." I also didn't make a "parallel between being black and gay." I made the point that being Black and being gay each classifies one as a minority, and this is true.

no one seems to ever try to make that point when homophobic white women are discussed.

Joe Miller was a homophobic Black man. I have no idea what a homophobic white woman has to do with anything I wrote.

[–] diorlouboutin 11 years ago

I made the point that being Black and being gay each classifies one as a minority, and this is true.

That is exactly what drawing a parallel is.

Joe Miller was a homophobic Black man. I have no idea what a homophobic white woman has to do with anything I wrote.

It has to do with the fact that you and other people continue to bring up the fact that black people are also a discriminated group whenever there's a black person that's homophobic but yet no one ever says anything about women who are a homophobic - and they're also a group who has and still does experience prejudice.

[–] SeasonalAffective 11 years ago

That is exactly what drawing a parallel is.

I made the point that one *could* have made the parallel, in calling Miller out for being a minority attacking another minority. It's not being Black, per se, that matters; if he was Jewish or Muslim or Asian, etc, the point remains that he was a minority who was extremely prejudiced against another minority.

It has to do with the fact that you and other people continue to bring up the fact that black people are also a discriminated group

I don't know how you can make any assumptions about me "continuing" to do anything, when you know nothing about me. I make the post on this board because this is a board dedicated to the movie Philadelphia, whose producers make the point of casting in a lead role--the role of a man who hates gays--a Black actor, when there are plenty of other actors who could have been chosen for the role. I always assumed it was deliberate--as I mentioned in my OP--to show just how prejudiced *most* people are in the US, in that even other minorities were antagonistic towards gays.

yet no one ever says anything about women who are a homophobic

That's a pretty blanket statement, and one that you can't actually prove. Moreover, even if it were true, it doesn't weaken the argument I made earlier. I'd have made the exact same OP if the Miller character was a female minority. Don't put words in my mouth.

[–] diorlouboutin 11 years ago

Your original post said:

I always thought it was interesting that Miller, who is a minority (being Black-American), was never called out for his prejudice.

So clearly YOU drew the parallel and were curious why it wasn't addressed in the film.

Like I said, you're very interested in the idea that Miller is black and homophobic, and like many other people, I highly doubt you would have if he were a woman instead.

Point blank.

[–] SeasonalAffective 11 years ago

And again, you put words in my mouth and know nothing about me. I really don't care if you "highly doubt" anything about me. You don't know me, and you sound like an idiot speaking for me.

[–] diorlouboutin 11 years ago

Your original post makes you look like an idiot, and a probable racist. Next.

[–] SeasonalAffective 11 years ago

That is one of the stupidest posts I've ever read on IMDb, and that's quite an accomplishment. Off you go now, child.

[–] diorlouboutin 11 years ago

Hit a nerve.

[–] diorlouboutin 11 years ago

Hit a nerve.

[–] SeasonalAffective 11 years ago

Not at all, but I have a life, so I'm afraid you'll have to waste someone else's time from here on out. Now I call you an idiot one more time before putting you on ignore. This way, I get the last laugh, and you feel like the fool that you are

[–] diorlouboutin 11 years ago

You supposedly have a life, but need the satisfaction of getting the last word in an internet argument. Hahahaha.

[–] tmm_8705 11 years ago

The film does bring it up, but it doesn't do it in an overt fashion. I think it would have been too obvious to have a character go "hey, don't you see gays are being treated the same way blacks were in segregated times?", and I'm sure the filmmakers considered it and agreed it wasn't necessary to spell it out to audiences. I actually prefer the way they did it, when Miller is expressing his homophobic feelings, both his wife and Andy have this expression their faces that suggests "you've gotta be kidding me", which is all you really need. It's also better for the character of Miller, because what's more dramatic: Miller being lectured about the parallels of gays and blacks then coming to the conclusion that his homophobic feelings are awful, or actually having Miller discover that for himself through his experience of defending Andy? Doing the latter would also show that Miller is capable of being introspective and that makes him a stronger character, not needing to have someone point out the obvious.

[–] SeasonalAffective 11 years ago

I'm not calling for the movie to be pretentious like you say, but I don't know what you're talking about when you say:

I actually prefer the way they did it, when Miller is expressing his homophobic feelings, both his wife and Andy have this expression their faces that suggests "you've gotta be kidding me", which is all you really need

What scenes are you referring to? His wife laughs at his homophobia, essentially excusing it, while Andy does give him a look like, "you've got to be kidding me," but that's in reference to Joe's stupid "sorry for what happened to you" comment -- not anything to do with his homophobic rants.

[–] tmm_8705 11 years ago

I never got his wife laughing at his homophobia meant she was "excusing" it but rather that she was finding how absurd it was. There's also another moment where Andy does look like he's thinking "you've gotta be kidding me" when Joe explains how he was brought up to view gays. At least, that's the way I read it.

[–] SeasonalAffective 11 years ago

Regarding Joe's wife, I always took it as her basically laughing it off, like "oh, my husband is so stuck in his old ways," etc. They even joke further about it and he admits he's stuck in those ways of thinking.

Regarding Andy's reaction to Joe's comments about his views on gays, I took it as him being hurt by it, but not surprised. Miller says that "most" people think the same way as him and he's just explaining it, in case Andy isn't aware. It's clear from Andy's reaction that he was aware, and knows that's the reality, but was keeping it civil, by "thanking" him for his comment, so they can move on.

[–] TheLordofTheHarvest 10 years ago

I think Miller being black was a nice twist. Not only is he a homohobe to start but he's in a role that gets discriminated against too. Oddly enough his decision to support and defend Andrew is inspired by his dispisement of the discrimination Andrew had to deal with at the library.

Originally though Miller was meant to be a lawyer with Italian roots. He was supposed to have been played by a comedian who could act like Robin Williams or Bill Murray. But once it got to casting Denzel read the script on a plane ride and decided he would go hard for the role. (Check out the making of documentary on the 10th Anniversary DVD they explain that and more on there..)

[–] SeasonalAffective 10 years ago

Oddly enough his decision to support and defend Andrew is inspired by his dispisement of the discrimination Andrew had to deal with at the library.

Someone here mentioned that the librarian also discriminated against Miller by giving him a dirty look at one point, at that this was due to Miller being black. I think that's stretching things, though.

Originally though Miller was meant to be a lawyer with Italian roots. He was supposed to have been played by a comedian who could act like Robin Williams or Bill Murray. But once it got to casting Denzel read the script on a plane ride and decided he would go hard for the role. (Check out the making of documentary on the 10th Anniversary DVD they explain that and more on there..)

Interesting. I didn't know this. It totally would have worked that way. I love it when comics are used for serious roles, as it opens up a new depth to the character. It also does wonders for that actor, because audiences get to see him or her in a radically new light. Did you know Pat Morita was a very dirty, raunchy comedian? The he does Mr. Miyagi, KILLS IT in the role, and he was set for life.

[–] !!!deleted!!! (25263709) 10 years ago

Do you believe that it would be especially appalling if I was homophobic because I'm autistic?

[–] SeasonalAffective 10 years ago

Do you believe that it would be especially appalling if I was homophobic because I'm autistic?

No.

[–] wylierichardson-966-922691 9 years ago

But Miller isn't shown actually being 'discriminated against'. The film seems to go for a deliberately 'race-neutral' tone. The role could have been played by a white actor with virtually no changes needed to the dialogue. It's worth noting that "Rachel Getting Married" was also directed by Jonathan Demme, and if you have seen that latter film you will see the similarity with "Philadephia".

[–] glasspix85 10 years ago

It's shown in the library scene, Denzel Washington is studying law books and looks up to see a white man glaring at him in a suspicious way, then immediately after that sees the Librarian suggesting Tom Hanks should use a private study room. That's where he sees the parallels between treatment of blacks and gays. No need to verbalize it.

[–] hsimpleton 10 years ago

Miller had just taken a big bite from a sandwich that he had hidden behind a pile of books. He was chewing it, but stopped immediately when the white man (a library clerk?) walked past watching him suspiciously. Miller still had some sandwich sticking out of the side of his mouth that he pushed in after the "clerk" walked by. He almost got caught eating in the library is all that was about.

[–] AndrewGS 9 years ago

Joe's wife clearly disapproved of his anti-gay attitudes, thinking they were both inaccurate and offensive and joking they were cave man views and he half-jokingly admitted they were prejudice and Andrew clearly was surprised and disliked that Joe knew about if not shared anti-gay attitudes but it was believable that both wouldn't push him too much or too much further.
The film was pretty blunt to the audience with the back of the bus comment but I agree it was generally better to have Joe Miller come to see parallels on his own.

[–] fede_4488 9 years ago

Yeah, it would have been too on the noose if Miller would have gotten preached at about race discimination and sexual orientation discrimination.

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