MovieChat Forums > Jurassic Park (1993) Discussion > Plot hole that highly respected paleonto...

Plot hole that highly respected paleontologists had no idea a dinosaur park was being built?


Apologies if this has already been discussed. I went back a few pages and couldn't see anything.

I don't know if this was better explained in the book or just something you have to accept for the entire film to work but how did Grant and Ellie literally have no idea a dinosaur theme park had been built? A couple of highly respected paleontologists and they didn't have a clue.

The sheer level of construction meant a lot of people were involved and even taking into account NDAs for the construction workers, they had to source all the scientists to work on developing the dinosaurs which would surely have raised an eyebrow within the scientific community. Not even any rumours about the island. Nothing.

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It seems unlikely that everyone involved could keep a secret, but it's clear that this is indeed a secret project on a mysterious island and that every effort is being made to keep it under wraps, so it's definitely not a plot hole.

It's also possible that even on the island much of the information was only dispersed on a need-to-know basis and that many of the regular laborers didn't even know what they were working on.

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I would point out the Nedry (the programmer) had a whole side in the story where he deduces what is really going on in the island because Hammond would give only odd tasks like build a database capable of sequencing a million values and the rest would be put together in house.

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Why would they notice? It was on a tropical island in 1993.

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It is a little hard to swallow. Imagine if it was made today - some construction worker's Tweet or Insta post would give the game away instantly.

Richard Kiley knew about it from an early stage - but old-time Hollywood knew how to keep secrets, I guess.

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1993 was very different from the world today.

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Yes, I remember it well... I was a student at the time and my halls of residence had ONE (rather unreliable) payphone shared between about twenty of us.

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Yeah. I remember payphones too. Now they are almost extinct.

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Very different for the good in a lot of ways.

I hate how wired-in and enmeshed our world is today.

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Correct it is but the scale would still stand out the materials/equipment and then man/women power.

This would not be possible to hide unless they did it in stages over decades which they did not I cant remember the time line but it was fairly short.

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Is it? Look at high level attractions nowadays. The leaks for e.g. Disney's Star Wars Experience were all done by Marketing, the leaked construction pictures were just not able to avoid without forbidding aerial transport etc completly. But from the inside no one has yet a clear picture. Same for Nintendo World in Universal Studios Japan. And even then, it only leaked within Fans, not widespread.
So yes, even today you can contain such information. If its far away from all civilization like Isla Sorna and Isla Nublar, it is even easier. A rich person like Hammond could easily control all in and outgoing telecommunication traffic on these islands, if he wants. And paying the people adequate helps too, beside doing a good background check.

No, I am convinced that the whole Park would be a secret until the Marketing Campaign would start. This would have exactly happened after the (succesful) sign-off by Grant and Malcolm.

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This is one of the plot points that makes me hate this movie so much. It's so intellectually insulting. No matter how hard you wanted to, a Jurassic Park could never successfully launch from start to finish in complete and total secret. The reason why is that a project of this scope naturally demands the help of experts.

For example, say you had the most brilliant cloners on earth cloning dinosaurs left and right. Great. But then how would you know how much and what to feed the dinos, anticipate problems involving heat (like dinos going on rampages), etc.? How would you know what health issues you might encounter? Even before thinking about the logistics of operating the park from a commercial standpoint, you'd have to consult and recruit the world's leading paleontologists, biologists and maybe even zoologists right from the very beginning of the project.

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The thing is, if you asked a top paleontologist what to feed the dinosaurs, what temperatures they could tolerate, what health issues they had, and what would send one on a rampage, they'd absolutely give the same answer to all such questions: "We just don't know!". And then you'd have to push them to speculate, and they'd say that "... and although _____osaurs are assumed to be vegetarian because of their dentition we don't know which plants they ate, because while the fossil record has preserved a couple of soft body organs it hasn't preserved stomach contents, but they are typically found in association with the following plants (insert names of extinct plants) but of course we don't know which ones they found palatable and which they found toxic, etc..........." and so on for days.

So instead of having all the top paleontologists on staff, Hammond would have to find some brilliant weirdo paleontologists who are willing to dig through all the literature in the Jurassic field, and speculate and make educated guesses and experiment and things a whirl. Because the top paleontologists would be too concerned with what is officially known in the field, when what Hammond needs is someone who can work with what isn't known.

So again, NOT a plothole.

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I liked how you cherry picked my points by immediately zeroing in on paleontogists, when I also mentioned biologists and zoologists needing to be consulted. It just makes your refutation much easier, I guess.

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Well, you'd get exactly the same answers from zoologists, botanists, and biologists.

Ask them what a dinosaur eats, and they'll say: "We just don't know! But assuming that dinosaur cellular metabolism is roughly equivalent to that of a modern plant-eating bird, say a goose, which is by the way a massive assumption as of course the fossil record gives us absolutely no information at the cellular level..." and on for days! Like I said, what Hammond really need it was someone who was willing to go over all the information available from the fossil record, and who could wing it from there.

But you know, I think the cloning-and-genetics crowd are the ones most likely to leak information into the scientific community, they're the ones who'd be doing fantastic groundbreaking stuff that would have useful applications in the real world, and they'd be eager to share information like proper scientists. And to boast. But it'd still mean that paleontologists who spend their careers out in the field could easily have no clue.

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Well, you'd get exactly the same answers from zoologists, botanists, and biologists.


In other words, you subscribe to Spielberg's populist notions of expert opinion and science. Zoologists, botanists, and biologists, in other words, are just a bunch of nerds who "know highly technical stuff", but are too stupid to be able to apply their knowledge to the "unknown" in such a way as to be accurate (or as reasonably accurate as possible).

This line of thinking is why I absolutely hate this movie, because if people familiarized themselves with how scientific knowledge works, they'd know how off-base this line of thinking is. Zoologists, botanists, and biologists of course would be initially thrown in their first encounters with dinosaurs, having never encountered them before. But dinosaurs, in the end of the day, are animals, and their biology and behavior would be similar enough to certain species living today that with enough observation, the zoologists, botanists, and biologists would be able to answer the questions of what they eat, how they behave during mating season, etc. The reason why is that they'd be able to apply what they know about, say, lizard and bird behavior, to species of dinosaurs that more or less are built and behave in the same way.

That's how scientific knowledge and expertise works. But of course with a anti-science, anti-expert populist like Spielberg, what the population learns is something different.

I ask this in all seriousness--not to be confrontational, but in the hopes of maybe opening your horizons a little--have you watched, say, science programs like Nova or Scientific American Frontiers? Or National Geographic, which shows how scientists draw conclusions about certain things?

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Actually, I've studied enough biological science and read enough about dinosaurs specifically to feel pretty certain I know more about the subject than you do. Because you say stuff like "But dinosaurs, in the end of the day, are animals, and their biology and behavior would be similar enough to certain species living today that with enough observation, the zoologists, botanists, and biologists would be able to answer the questions of what they eat, how they behave during mating season, etc."

FYI the current theory of dinosaur evolution is that they didn't die out, but only the smaller species survived the asteroid disorder, and they evolved into birds. So say Hammond wants to know what to feed a triceratops, so he asks a scientist to come up with a menu, by making assumptions based on the diet of the modern species most closely related to the triceratops... which would indeed be a plant-eating bird like a goose. Dude, that would be like an alien asking what to feed you for breakfast, based on what capybaras like, because you're both mammals! No, wait, it would be more like asking an alien what to feed you, based on the diet of whatever the descendants of capybara will evolve into in 70 million years. Mmmm, tasty!

The thing is, scientists do have ideas about unanswerable questions such as "What did this species of dinosaur eat", and will argue with each other about their theories, but the fossil record really tells us diddly-squat about such things and they know their theories are based on assumptions made from limited data and aren't actually fact. So to a non-scientist like Hammond, their standard answer would be "We just don't know", although of course they will discuss current theories with qualifications about limited data if someone is curious and persistent. But they still don't know.


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I'm sure that everyone in the local construction industries knew what was up with what! And if there was a leak in the scientific community, IMHO it'd be more likely to be among scientists who work on genetics or cloning, than paleontologists, because the geneticists and cloning whizzes would be the ones doing the gruntwork of actually creating the main attraction. Sure, the work of paleontologists would be referred to, and a few trustworthy paleontologists would be on the payroll, and of course Hammond would donate to university paleontology departments and cultivate relationships with certain useful people, without telling them exactly why he was interested in dinosaurs.

So I'm going to go out on a limb, and say it's entirely possible that a couple of paleontologists who spend a lot of time out in the field wouldn't have a clue!

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The construction workers were all hired locally in Costa Rica, so they couldn't exactly go to the New York Times, especially before the internet.

When it comes to scientists and engineers, breaching an NDA would not only open them up to a massive lawsuit, but breaking NDAs is career suicide, no tech companies or labs would go near them again. Even Dr Wu couldn't take his research to the highest bidder, because those kinds of contracts usually mean everything he develops in the labs belongs to the company he's working for at the time.

The Hammond Foundation isn't publicly associated with InGen, so as far as Grant and Ellie etc knew, Hammond was a batty old man who funded dinosaur digs and collected bones and Amber, they didn't know it was going to a genetics company.

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Maybe the worst attempt at a plothole ever.

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I don't think you've thought it through as it clearly is a plothole.

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I think you may want to go do some research on what a plot hole actually is. "Plot hole" is not synonymous with "something that is far-fetched."

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Plothole, define

"In fiction, a plot hole, plothole or plot error is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot. Such inconsistencies include things as illogical, unlikely or impossible events, and statements or events that contradict earlier events in the storyline"

Perfectly fine usage.

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If you want to define any event that is "unlikely" as a plot hole, then every film is riddled with them. If everything is a plot hole, then nothing is.

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A secret development project is not a plothole.

Please go ahead and list 5 secret construction projects that are happening on remote, uninhabited islands right now.

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You're not grasping the scale and specialty of the development on the island.

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And you're not grasping the speciality of NDA's and being sued into oblivion by billionaire lawyers.

Projects get built in secret. Infrastructure is built by engineers and land developers, there is nothing special about that. There certainly aren't any geneticists driving excavators. Consultants only and they are performing top secret genetics research in their own lab ... Just like every other lab in the world.

You're Clinging onto this when it's ABSOLUTE nonsense.

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lol. Sure. Carry on believing someone can build a dinosaur island and not have it leak. Can you not hear how ridiculous that sounds?

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I'm not saying there can't be leaks, in fact there are leaks in the actual film.

I'm saying that your notion that 100% of paleontologists would know about every single dinosaur related project in the entire would because they are respected...

Aside from the fact that they are invited to evaluate the island experience prior to its launch means that they were always on the list to be consulted anyway.

This is literally the stupidest plot hole theory of all time.

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No, you're not grasping the concept that a project of this scale could never, ever be kept from people who work within the field, because the complexity demands that outsiders know about it, NDA or no NDA.

I tried explaining this somewhere in a different response, but for some strange reason, it disappeared or never posted or something. But I tried to illustrate what the OP was talking about from a real life experience.

When I was in art school, Dreamworks was trying to build and launch its animation wing in secret. The idea was to let Disney bask in the glory of being the "main" animation studio and then surprise everyone with its first animated feature, The Prince of Egypt.

The problem with keeping it all secret is that because Dreamworks had to build the studio from the ground up, it needed to start recruiting everyone from scratch. So what do you think happened? As it started making the rounds recruiting thousands of art students, the secret got out. Of course, the recruiters were very careful not to give specific details, but they gave away just enough so that if you were an art student in 1995, you knew what Dreamworks was doing and you knew that it was working on an animation feature that took place in Ancient Egypt (code name: The Sand King).

I can imagine that as Dreamworks needed more and more people to build the studio and eventually make the film, the same thing happened. Everyone remotely tangentially involved in the industry wound up knowing about everything. The fact that NDAs were involved--and people were honoring it by referring to The Prince of Egypt as The Sand King--didn't make a difference. It was a secret, but an "open secret" within the industry.

This phenomenon is what the OP is talking about. The scope of building a Jurassic Park would've been too big to be limited to just a small group of people bound by an NDA. The paleontology world would've been consulted at some point, including the main characters.

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Nope, you're trying to cling on to something that isn't there.

You ever been involved in the planning and development of a multi million dollar construction project?

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This was explained better in the book. Grant was consulted by InGen but the knowledge was compartmentalized. They only asked for his expertise on dinosaurs and only gave him the information he needed to know. They would ask him questions like: What do dinosaurs eat? What kind of environments are best? Which dinosaurs can cohabitate? In the book it was also explained that he got annoyed that they didn't tell him why they wanted this information and he eventually dropped out of the project until Hammond showed up to personally recruit him.

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OK. That's something at least.

I think anyone that dismisses this as issue, i.e. the park being built in secret don't fully appreciate what would go into such a park. The sheer amount of construction as I mentioned. Take the T-Rex pen for instance. Those huge electric fences, the weird concrete sheer face. I can't imagine you could build an enclosure like that without someone thinking huh, wtf? And leaking it anonymously.

The security, networking, infrastructure, labs etc. This isn't stuff you could do by just picking up a bunch of Costa Rican labourers and telling them to get on with it. It's specialized work.

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I can't imagine trusting the park's automation to a single guy. Normally that kind of work will go to a contractor or vendor who will manage the program. What happens when the one guy gets sick, or gets in an accident, or just wants to blow you off? Not to mention the sheer enormity of the thing.

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Another valid point.

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Just because a construction worker might think something seems strange, what is there to leak beyond the fact that they're building something unusual and don't understand what it is?

Without knowing what was going on behind closed doors, they'd never get to the conclusion of "Oh, I'm clearly building a pen for genetically engineered dinosaurs that have been brought back to life."

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Whilst of course they're not going to jump straight to engineered dinosaurs, it's pretty sus and interesting enough to generate discussion and speculation.

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I'm sure there was discussion and speculation over the island, especially in and around Costa Rica.

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