Plus the point was to tie it up in a neat little bow. Wife dead, husband guilty. No need to look for any other nefarious motives.
sharePlan B worked better than plan A.
shareWas that the point? The goal was to kill Kimble, not Helen too.
Why does the one-armed man attack Helen in the first place? Why not hide and wait until Kimble returns?
The plan wasn't to kill kimble, I don't think. Didn't Helen figure our some shit? Plan was to frame Harrison. Would have worked but he came home early. Been a minute since I watched it though.
shareHelen figured out nothing. It was a hit on Kimball that went wrong when Kimball got called out to operate last minute. The killer attacked Helen presumably because she saw him (though this is never explained, rather awkwardly)
When Kimball says to Nichols ‘why Helen?’ while dangling him off the roof it makes it sound like they were after Helen but they weren’t, she just got in the way.
The film had a nightmarish writing history and was even being rewritten after they’d started shooting. It’s a miracle the film is as simple and effective as it turned out to be, but some of those problems still manifest when you think the plot through.
I thought it was pretty self explanatory. The plan was for Sykes to wait for Kimball and kill him. Helen stumbled upon him while putting her seduction plan in motion. So he had to kill her. Kimball walked in and started fighting him. Kimball broke his arm so Sykes had to flee. The frame up just fit the scenario.
shareYeah that is pretty much it.
This is a top tier movie though, everytime I watch it I like it more. There are so many things that shouldn't work but do. Score is sweet too, fits perfectly.
That’s all correct. My only issue is that we never actually learn that Helen startled Sykes. It would be good to have seen exactly how that occurred.
It’s also ambiguous as to whether Sykes is making Helen incriminate Richard, or if she accidentally does so by saying ‘Richard… he’s trying to kill me’
Finally, why would Nichols be so dumb as to call Sykes from Kimble’s car phone?
Very intelligent people sometimes do very stupid things. Ironic if the police had done their job instead of presuming Kimball's guilt, they would have caught the killers
shareVery intelligent people sometimes do very stupid things.
No that happens even in good stories. It showcases that even intelligent people are human and can have a lapse in judgement.
shareHorseshit. You're making unconvincing excuses for bad screenwriting.
shareSo do intelligent people ever have a lapse in judgement? Do intelligent people ever make a foolish decision? If yes your point gets contradicted.
shareYes, they do.
But those are all shit writing events.
To be REALISTIC, stories often cannot be REAL.
Disagree. Sometimes showcasing the reality of humanity makes a story more realistic.
shareSometimes, ok. But you need to frame it properly.
In a action movie, specifically this one, or fiction in general, it looks stupid or not realistic.
Watch Pain and Gain, it is a real story. The movie points out many times how the stuff in it is not shit writing, but it actually happened like that, because, in fiction, you need to be realistic (and in that case, running over a person with a truck would be seen as unreal shit writing if that person survives, etc).
I disagree that it looks stupid or not realistic considering lapses in judgement or poor decisions happen in real life. I guess we can agree to disagree.
I do not have any interest in watching more Michael Bay films. I have had my feel of that guy and he is not my cup of tea.
Hey don't get me wrong, Micheal Bay is a hack and I don't like 95% of his movies.
But Pain and Gain is his best effort, and is a decent movie allover, but even if it is not good for you, I only mentioned it as an example of a movie, based in reality, that uses a REAL story that is so out there that, if they didn't point out themselves how unbelievable all this actually happened stuff seems, would BECOME unbelievable for a viewer.
Just because a movie is self aware of what it is does not make that any better for me. This to me is the Deadpool scenario. Oh lets point out how lazy the writing is we are doing, that way we can still do the lazy writing cliche and it waves it away.
shareNope, totally wrong example.
This is NOT like in Deadpool.
This is just a case of a movie reporting a real story, that kept the facts as they were, who needed to make clear with the audience that such an outlandish series of events was indeed real (and not, like this whole thread debates, just a case of shit writing).
BTW, Deadpool does a little bit of what you mentioned, it's been held ever since as a "lazy writing" example for some reason but it's really not worthy of such a crucifixion.
Like I said we can agree to disagree. I consider this a great film and do not see this as an issue. Have a good one.
shareNot in good screenplays they don’t, unless it’s a major plot point for an otherwise intelligent character to have a gaping mental defect and the film makes a big deal of it. The Fugitive doesn’t - it goes out if its way to establish Dr Nichols as a ‘smart’ man and then we hear from a minor character that ‘Kimble called Sykes’ aka… a man who meticulously plotted the murder of his friend had an unexplained brainfart and called the hit man from the intended victim’s car phone he was borrowing, instantly incriminating himself.
This was pulled out of a writer’s ass at the last minute, since we know they were writing the ending while the film was still being shot.
Now, either you know all this and you’ve for some reason decided to make a prick of yourself, or you don’t already know this and are massively naive. Which is it?
Interesting. Sounds to me like the only one allowed an opinion on how story structure should work is yourself. You sound like quite the entitled little child. It is your opinion that good screenplays do not have that. Film structure does not need to follow your rule book or structure to be considered good. You know that real life smart criminals make those kind of bonehead moves in real lie correct? Smart people making bad decisions happens in real life therefore it makes it realistic.
No one needs your approval to consider this film great. Get back to your boot licking safe space you pathetic incel.
Eat shit, and pay attention to what you're being told. I’ve already said ‘I love The Fugitive’ - I can appreciate a film while being cognisant of its flaws.
You can’t, you’re in complete denial of this obvious flaw in the writing, and your desperate excuse is convincing nobody. It’s shit writing for the reasons I’ve explained.
You run nothing around here buddy boy. I'm able to recognize flaws in films I like. However that doesn't mean I need to agree with what you think is a flaw.
Your explanations are weak and non logical. Get better educated on film. Cool thing is I'm going to film school. You are just a bitter boot licker on a message board.
I'm going to film school.
It is quite obvious I know more about film than you do. Sit back and watch while the pros do their work. The only thing you will produce is crap in a toilet. The world has changed it is not the 1800's anymore. Take your boot licking somewhere else.
shareYou know fuck all and it’ll be hilarious when this ‘film school’ chews you up and shits you out as an even more useless fuck at the end of it, much poorer than when you went in 🤣
shareNope I am almost graduated. I am learning tons of things and will be walking out debt free. That is what happens when you are smart and budget your money the right way. When you do not make the right choices you end up a bitter old man who hates seeing success from anyone. Kind of like yourself lol. I am sorry you are so upset with your life. Things will turn out okay though. I will be living my dream doing something productive while you keep producing crap in a toilet.
shareYou’ve nearly finished the course and you're this clueless about film? Holy shit that’s tragic. You paid to become this much of a retard?
They raped you hard.
🤣🤣🤣
Lol get back to your worthless life bro. Keep licking them boots.
shareThere’s a poetic justice in you getting raped by that film school given that you’re nothing more than a bloated shrieking ego with zero substance.
shareLol do not worry, I am getting well compensated and am working a well paying job. Working on film sets and networking is rather fun. I bet cash money you are not doing anything remotely close to worthwhile as what I am. By your attitude you can tell you work a dead end job.
shareNo, you’re a total loser who spends all day trying and failing to troll on a movie forum. You know fuck all about films.
You’re a useless, low IQ shithead with a fat ego, nothing more. It’s hilarious that you think you have anything to offer the film industry.
My question here is if you gonna hire a hitman why hire a one armed guy in his 50's... of course may be the guy who hired him only knew him and didn't have a list of hitmen available to hire, however still not very wise.
shareHe did know Sykes. Sykes was already working for him and had something to lose if Kimble exposed them.
share