Did BOB intend to become a killer? - Twin Peaks: Fire Walk with Me (1992) Discussion

[–] MovieMan0283part2 10 years ago

I think that event is really key. It's also right after Leland flashes back to that incident that the one-armed man admonishes him in traffic, which then leads to Laura pressing Leland on whether he was home the other day (when she saw Bob in the room). In a film which very closely links physical & psychological phenomena, I find that pretty significant.

Also, the connection between Donna & Ronette is established several times (when a shot of Donna spinning around dissolves to Ronette's first appearance, when Ronette is the one who points Laura to Donna being assaulted, and finally when Leland's view of Laura & Donna dissolves into a memory of Laura & Ronette). Each seems to correspond to a different side of Laura's personality, a different part of her world (further emphasized by the fact that Leland sees Laura & Ronette together in the motel, not just Laura alone).

Note that when Laura rescues Donna in the Pink Room we see the same bright light and flashing that we see later when the angel rescues Ronette in the train car. Which leads me to see the two events as linked: my reading is that Laura is the one who manifests the angel (perhaps unconsciously), corresponding to her earlier rescue of Donna. And just as the one-armed man seems to be "summoned" when Leland's guilt and Laura's curiosity are bubbling over, so he appears once again - and seemingly delivers the ring to Laura - after she has saved Ronette, a final gesture of compassion which proves Bob can't have her. Her love is stronger than her fear (unlike her father).

It took me a while to reach this reading (which is heavily shaped by, among others, Christy Desmet, John Thorne, and Brett Steven Abelman), and I have no idea if it's something Lynch was conscious of or would agree with. But I don't think it's contradicted by anything within the film and it's certainly the interpretation that feels the most right to me personally.

Get Lost in the Movies on http://thedancingimage.blogspot.com/

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[–] james_film 10 years ago

I don't understand how your post relates to the OP's question. You've repeated a post of yours from the dugpa.com forum. None of which explains whether BOB/ Leland planned the whole Laura death in the train car, or not?

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[–] MovieMan0283part2 10 years ago

I was addressing the question as written in the post itself rather than in the title: "If Leland had not seen Laura and Ronette Pulaski when visiting Teresa Banks, would he have killed her?" I agreed that it was a crucial turning point for the character - and in the film - but admittedly got sidetracked in my response.

Just to clarify, I do not think Bob intended to become a killer, as he wanted to possess Laura. He only destroys what he can't have. Even on the show, Maddy is killed when she announces her departure.

But I do think Leland wouldn't have killed Laura if he hadn't seen her with Ronette & Teresa. This event is tied to a) the murder of Teresa, b) the ring, c) Leland's discovery of Laura's corruption, d) Laura's realization that Bob = Leland. All of those factors lead inexorably to her death.

So, no, Bob didn't intend to become a killer, but yes, he killed Laura as a (indirect) result of Leland seeing her with Ronette.

Get Lost in the Movies on http://thedancingimage.blogspot.com/

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[–] james_film 10 years ago

Thanks for the reply.

Well, I have to disagree about the idea of BOB as merely some sort of possessing spirit. If you view BOB as a personification of Leland's self-disgust then are we to believe that Leland murdered Teresa Banks merely because she was blackmailing him? Or, is it more realistic that her exposing him to his own antics with prostitutes brought out his own self-disgust (BOB) and therefore he had to kill Teresa as he could no longer pretend she looked just like his Laura? She was aware of his frailty and that culminated in her death. Hence the smashing of the tv screen is more about Leland trying to deny what was revealed in the tv show - that he is BOB. (The electrical flow and plug from the tv shown in the film would suggest Leland wanted to cut himself off from anyone knowing what was really wrong with him - as in cutting the wire or smashing the tv to stop anything being screened to others) - that is my personal reading of this image.

The use of electricity in Lynch's work as a whole I see as connected to consciousness and possibly some sort of mass consciousness of awareness. BOB masks Leland so that he can indulge in his own appetite for prostitutes and of course Laura.

With Maddy, I think Leland just saw her as being the same as Laura - that she would expose him. Due to whatever reason, maybe a feeling or a psychic tendency that Sarah Palmer also exhibited in a distorted form, Maddy had already sensed something was wrong in the Palmer household.

Also, as Agent Cooper said, perhaps Leland was re-living the murder of his own daughter with Maddy. Of course it was also a way for the audience to be fully confronted with Leland/ BOB's horror - otherwise I suppose the series would have had to have used flashbacks to the Laura murder more, or just leave it in dreams like the Ronette hospital dream. So overall Maddy was a plot device to fully expose Leland, which would have come later on if ABC had not urged a resolution to the mystery. Whether FWWM answers all of our questions, is another matter - I would suggest that it doesn't, especially considering what Laura says in the Between Two Worlds episode on this new blu-ray release about the 'truth of it all.' I think the complexity of the whole Leland/ BOB thing is possibly too great to fully get a handle on.

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[–] MovieMan0283part2 10 years ago

Agreed with much/most of this. I also don't see Bob as a purely possessing - and certainly not an overly controlling - spirit. Whatever else he is (and I don't believe FWWM sustains a solely metaphorical/psychological reason, though I initially wished it would), he is certainly ALSO a manifestation of Leland's guilt, temptation, and denial. This is one of the big reasons I prefer FWWM's presentation of Leland/Bob to ep. 16. Even aside from this discomfort with introducing incest as a subtext and then trying to write it off as daddy-didn't-know-what-he-was-doing, Leland as a helpless prisoner of Bob is also much less compelling thematically and dramatically. The Leland/Bob of Fire Walk With Me, a man as Lynch puts it at "war within" himself is a far richer portrait.

Increasingly, I view Bob's inhabiting spirit and Leland's abusive father as harboring independent but interrelated motivations. The film does feed into a mythology in which the Lodge spirits are real, but it also encourages us to think of this reality in terms which relate to human experience rather than as purely out-there fantasy escapism. In other words, spirit Bob may desire to possess/control Laura as part of some outlandish stolen-garmonbozia scheme and person Leland may desire to contain Laura within the split-image he has of her (innocent "princess" and nighttime conquest). But rather than being two divergent motivations for two divergent characters, I'd rather see Leland and Bob - and suspect Lynch wants us to see them - as echoes of one another, essentially stating the same thing twice, once on a metaphysical level, the other on an everyday level.

I think Lynch does this in ALL his second-stage films, from Fire Walk With Me on (Martha Nochimson, from whom I've borrowed the term and its definition, believes the second stage begins with Lost Highway, but I feel FWWM is the crucial transition into this mode). Rather than treat supernatural or paranormal phenomena within a genre context, in which it squares off against a clearly-delineated rationality, he uses it for allegorical resonance (which is NOT to say it isn't real within the world of the film) to heighten the personal, psychological drama. By the same token, he could be said to be using the personal, psychological drama to get at great spiritual themes. It goes in both directions. Hopefully that makes sense.

Get Lost in the Movies on http://thedancingimage.blogspot.com/

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[–] panemique 10 years ago

Remember what he said in Cooper's dream: "You may think I've gone insane, but I promise you... I will kill again!".

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