MovieChat Forums > Terminator 2: Judgment Day (1991) Discussion > T2 breaking the Causal Loop of T1.

T2 breaking the Causal Loop of T1.

posted 8 years ago by Necronomicon2016
5 replies | jump to latest

Vaguely inspired by 'Terminator Genisys':

A Terminator coming from an alternate universe materializes in the T1-T2 Fixed Timeline and studies Skynet in 2029 --- before and after its defeat. He then uploads the infos about Miles Dyson and Skynet's secret origins into the T-800 "The Protector/Uncle Bob", some hours before John Connor and the Resistance would discover the core and the Terminator Facility. Before that, only the T-1000 had infos about Skynet's secret origins, not the Protector T-800 or any other T-800.

Basically, the timeline is altered when T-800 revealed Miles Dyson's bio and large role into Skynet's creation. Sarah would make the dream, which was always part of the fixed timeline anyway. So it wasn't the dream, it wasn't divine intervention. It was the informations that she acquired about Miles Dyson that pushed her to "do something" ----> Causal Loop broken!

[–] Necronomicon2016 8 years ago

Bump.

[–] Errauko 8 years ago

I'm always happy when people acknowledge that T1 was definitely a Causal Loop, and that T2 was a story about them breaking that loop. However, the movie explains why this was possible. Cameron had his characters come right out and say, "There is no fate but what we make." Clearly this is a reference to free will, and therefore an explanation for why Sarah can make a decision that changes the future. I'm curious about why you reject this idea and feel the need to insert a more deterministic mechanism to explain the change. Care to explain?

[–] Necronomicon2016 8 years ago

Clearly this is a reference to free will, and therefore an explanation for why Sarah can make a decision that changes the future. I'm curious about why you reject this idea and feel the need to insert a more deterministic mechanism to explain the change. Care to explain?

It's easy. If it is a FIXED timeline (and it is), everything already "happened" the way it happened. Each single thought, each single gesture, each single action, each single word already "occurred" that way. In order to alter a fixed timeline, you need an "external force" coming from the outside of the space-time continuum. There is no other viable way to accomplish an alteration.

I don't like the idea of a divine intervention manifesting itself inside Sarah's mind at a certain point, so I prefer my personal theory about an interdimensional Terminator of some kind tempering with the continuum.

Remember, the quote "There is no fate but what we make" comes from Kyle (and John). At THAT point, Kyle and Skynet believed the timeline could have been altered via time travel. Skynet sent the Terminators in the very first place because the "plan" was to alter the timeline and thus win the war.

In nuce: the revelation of the Fixed Timeline and the Causal Loop at the end of "The Terminator" was a "Shyamalan Ending Twist", not a premise.

[–] Errauko 8 years ago

So are you saying that free will cannot exist in the context of this story because the future is fixed, in the context of this story? Or are you saying that free will cannot exist at all, and therefore is not a viable mechanism for affecting the future in this or any context?

[–] Necronomicon2016 8 years ago

I'm talking about the Terminator 1/12 Monkeys context.

"Free will" exists within the FIXED TIMELINE SCENARIO in the way characters do whatever they chose to do at a given time, and what they do is FREEZED in time FOREVER and EVER and EVER even before they do it.

In a FIXED timeline - FREEZED in time - past present and future cannot be altered. Each air molecula of Los Angels on May 12th, 1984 is placed the way it is supposed to be place, at a given time, at a given second.

Everything Kyle Reese do in 1984 already happened even before he would travel back in 1984.

Everything the T-800 do in 1984 already happened even before he would travel back in 1984.

"T2" is just wrong, but we must accept it.