MovieChat Forums > Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country (1991) Discussion > Claiming human quotes???

Claiming human quotes???

posted 9 years ago by mikeyg24
14 replies | jump to latest

I always found this a bit odd and wondered if it was ever explained. First we have the Klingons claiming that Shakespeare was originally written in Klingon. Then according to Spock Sherlock Holmes is a Vulcan ancestor and 'Only Nixon could go to China' is an old Vulcan expression. I'm sure there are a few more examples but why was it done at all? It's very specific yet seemingly pointless!

I've had a lot of sobering thoughts in my time Del Boy, it's them that started me drinking!

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] kerryedavis 9 years ago

They're all just jokes, really. Like when Chekov said that scotch whiskey vas inwented by a little old lady in Leningrad. But in some cases they're jokes to make a point. And what was Spock supposed to say, "Only Sarek could go to Andoria?"

[–] mikeyg24 9 years ago

in some cases they're jokes to make a point

What point?

And what was Spock supposed to say, "Only Sarek could go to Andoria?"

That would actually have been a more successful 'joke' as you put it, or maybe he didn't have to say anything at all? I just find it silly rather than comedic and I'm forced to agree with Gene Roddenberry. In my own humble opinion it just seems like a load of curious nonsense.

I've had a lot of sobering thoughts in my time Del Boy, it's them that started me drinking!

[–] kerryedavis 9 years ago

If you don't understand that sending Kirk as a kind of "peace envoy" to the Klingons was making a point/statement, sorry but that's a problem I can't help you with.

And Spock could have said "Only Sarek could go to Andoria" but it would have had to be "translated" for the audience to understand it, meanwhile Spock would have been well aware of Earth/human history and so could state it in a way that didn't require "translation" but was also funny at least to people who understood it.

Whereas changing it around would have been understandable to NO ONE, or at least very, very few people who might have been able to make the Nixon/Sarek connection themselves. Perhaps hours later, at home in bed after seeing the movie.

[–] mikeyg24 9 years ago

If you don't understand that sending Kirk as a kind of "peace envoy" to the Klingons was making a point/statement, sorry but that's a problem I can't help you with.

Quite frankly the last person I need help from is you but notwithstanding that particularity when did I say I didn't understand the comparison? I know why Spock said it, it was a fine analogy, I'm asking why Nixon was claimed as a Vulcan. What point was being made there? Why was Shakespeare claimed as a Klingon etc. Now I don't expect a superior intellect such as yourself to understand an obvious retard like me but all I'm asking is why could Spock not have said 'an old earth expression'? Besides your indication towards supposed humour of course?

I've had a lot of sobering thoughts in my time Del Boy, it's them that started me drinking!

[–] kerryedavis 9 years ago

Wow, there's just so much potential humor in jokes that don't involve or rely on any previous knowledge or cultural background, I just can't wait for the stream of TV shows and movies that use it!

Oh wait. No, there's not.

Would it have been better for Spock to say, "Only Ghandi could go to... wherever?"

[–] mikeyg24 9 years ago

Would it have been better for Spock to say, "Only Ghandi could go to... wherever?"

You really strive to misunderstand people don't you? I already said what would have been better. That it's a joke is merely your opinion. I don't agree so you're wasting your time stressing the point. Secondly I have no problem with the expression being used I just find it curious that it's a particular feature in the movie that so many quotes are erroneously applied so one would imagine there's a particular reason further than 'having a giggle'. Nixon was a Vucan...HILARIOUS!!! Shakespeare was a Klingon...MY SIDES ARE SPLITTING!!! Cinderella is an old Russian epic...WHAT A KNEE SLAPPER!!! I think not.

I've had a lot of sobering thoughts in my time Del Boy, it's them that started me drinking!

[–] rosebud-68 9 years ago

I hate having to explain throwaway lines - but nevertheless.

Imagine being a Vulcan. Apart from interpersonal issues around Pon Far,their society will have been more or less perfect for a millennium. Perhaps they are secretly fascinated by Earth history.

As for "Shakespeare in the original Klingon" - perhaps there's a haiebrained theory regarding the Bard actually being a Klingon. Because how could mere humans express such deep and primal feeling?

[–] mikeyg24 9 years ago

Because how could mere humans express such deep and primal feeling?

How could Klingons? Did you see the way they ate?

Hey! You're not 21! Now put down that beer and go die for your country!!!

[–] mckellan 9 years ago

I don't think it was explained. Maybe the Klingons have someone similar to Shakespeare in their own culture.

As far as the Sherlock Holmes quote, my impression was that Spock was implying that Sir Arthur Conan Doyle was his ancestor on his mother's side. Spock has quoted Sherlock Holmes more then once. Heh, Chang also quoted Sherlock Holmes as well as Shakespeare in this movie.

The 'only Nixon could go to China' thing was a joke but I have no idea why Spock would say it's a Vulcan saying. Unless it was along the same vein as Kirk's 'everyone is human' joke.

[–] Blueghost 8 years ago

by mikeyg24 » Tue Aug 11 2015 20:50:21
IMDb member since June 2006
Post Edited: Tue Aug 11 2015 20:53:01
I always found this a bit odd and wondered if it was ever explained. First we have the Klingons claiming that Shakespeare was originally written in Klingon. Then according to Spock Sherlock Holmes is a Vulcan ancestor and 'Only Nixon could go to China' is an old Vulcan expression. I'm sure there are a few more examples but why was it done at all? It's very specific yet seemingly pointless!

It is kind of Earth-centric. One wonders if all these alien cultures don't have expressions and so forth of their own. But it might also be a comment on just how far US and UK based culture have spread because of the US's preeminence in technology. Maybe the Federation is an analog to the US in the Star Trek universe, and because it's so powerful that things like Shakespeare have been absorbed by Klingon culture to make it their own. It's like people who are not Japanese loving samurai films and the like.

[–] Painbow 8 years ago

It's like when black people say Beethoven was black. They're trying to make a point about white-centric history.

I always saw the Klingon line about Shakespeare like that. They're claiming him because everything is so Federation (human) centric. The chancellor's daughter then criticises Kirk's use of the term "human rights."

It's analogous to the black experience of being marginalised by a more influential power.

[–] C.S.Wood 8 years ago

Lol at the flame war that developed over this, but I'm pretty sure Chang meant that Shakespeare's plays had been translated into other languages and that he had read them in Klingon.

I had always found that to be one of the more interesting aspects of Trek as humans would want to present to the quadrant their greatest works and Shakespeare's plays would be one of them.

Revenge is the most important meal of the day.

[–] mikeyg24 8 years ago

I'm pretty sure Chang meant that Shakespeare's plays had been translated into other languages and that he had read them in Klingon.

Even though Chang specifically says 'in it's original Klingon'?

Hey! You're not old enough to drink! Now go and die for your country!!!