This movie stunk and was blasphemous. - The Rapture (1991) Discussion

[–] sinless17 19 years ago

right on,
This movie was terrible and I hated the ending because it was stupid! And Mim rogers is ugly! The third Left BEhind was the best!

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[–] tylerrabbit 19 years ago

Awesome.. I did what you said in your long PS.. Now I'm going to heaven!!! You just saved someone!! But wait- everything you said reinforces why this movie is so poignant and thought provoking, never mind, guess I'm going to hell after all.. darn.

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[–] 19 years ago

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[–] 19 years ago

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[–] Grace333 18 years ago

Without question, this movie absolutely does NOT portray the truth about the rapture, the end times (that we are in now), or the truth about being a believer in Christ. Not even close!!!! It is faith ALONE in Christ ALONE that saves us and nothing else! My pastor recently taught on the subject of the end times in a series called, God's Grace and Mercy Found In The Prophesies Of The End Times. It was such a wonderful and comforting message because it was about how God is not a harsh and angry God at all who is waiting to punish us and send us to the Lake of Fire for not loving Him, but the God who desires that EVERYONE be saved and be with Him in Heaven forever. God is a LOVING and COMPASSIONATE Father who loves us and waits for us like the father waited for his son in Luke 15:20 - 24. That parable is the TRUE picture of God, not the god who was portrayed in this terrible movie!!!

The truth is that Jesus is 100% man and 100% God and that He is the One who was judged and died for all of the sins of everyone in the world, past, present and future, whether they believed in Him or not. We are not even judged at the judgment seat of Christ for our sins because of what Christ did at the cross for us - we are only judged for our deeds! The ONLY sin that will send someone to the Lake of Fire (hell) is to not believe in God's Son, Jesus Christ - that is it! This is the free gift of salvation that God offers to everyone. And the great news is that once you are a believer, even if it is just for a second, you are saved forever, no matter what!!! You can never lose your salvation ever!! This is called Eternal Security. There is not even ONE verse in the Bible that says we can ever do ANYTHING to lose our salvation once we have been saved. So this movie absolutely did not portray the truth about salvation!!! God is not an indian giver who gives us salvation and then takes it away because of a sin we committed or not "loving Him". Humans are indian givers, but God thankfully is NOT!

Again, It is only faith alone in Christ alone that saves us,NOT religion or being good, religious or moral. FAITH ALONE IN CHRIST ALONE, period! Salvation is NOT inviting Jesus into your heart as that is faith plus something YOU do, which gives credit to YOU and not to God who does ALL of the work for you for your salvation, not YOU. You getting the credit for salvation is what satan (the god of this world)wants, not what the Word of God says. NOWHERE in the Word of God does it say, invite Jesus into your heart. Religion is satan's (the god of this world) invention to deceive and distract us from the only One who can save us, Jesus Christ. Also, whether or not, you are a believer, the only thing that we are judged for is our deeds, NOT our sins. Our sins were paid for once and for all on the cross where Jesus took all of the judgement that we should take for our sins and paid for all of them IN FULL!!! Jesus not only died physically for us and suffered more than any human ever did or ever will again, but He also was spiritually separated from His Father (God the Father, His Father) for three hours while He willingly of His Own free will, took the judgement for all of our sins - every last one of them! And He would have done that even if there was only ONE human on earth who needed salvation. That is how much He loves us and how much God loves us as He gave us the very best that Heaven had to offer, His Son, The Lord Jesus Christ. It is such an absolutely incredible gift that He freely offers to everyone! God is a God Who continually gives us Grace after Grace and Mercy after Mercy, NOT because we earn or deserve it, because we DON'T, but because of Who and What He is.

After you are saved by faith alone in Christ alone, all you need to do is confess your sins to God the Father and He will forgive you according to 1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteouness". God does not want or need your guilt, so this is not about feeling sorry for your sins, this is about adjusting to the justice of God by simply admitting your sin. The analogy to this is when a child confesses what he/she did wrong to a parent out of respect for that parent. It is the same with us with God. When you confess your sins (especially before you pray or listen to a sermon) He not only cleanses you from all known and unknown sins, but you are then in fellowship with God and filled with the Holy Spirit, and are now able to understand Bible doctrine that is taught by your pastor teacher. All of us have a pastor/teacher who is assigned to us and we need to find our right pastor/teacher to teach us so that we wil be able to learn about God and His Son, The Lord Jesus Christ through the Word of God. This is how we grow in His grace and knowlege and learn how to glorify Him, which is our ONLY purpose on this earth.

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] Grace333 18 years ago

What made me want to watch this particular movie is that my pastor had just recently taught a very comforting and exciting series called, "The Love and Mercy of God Found in Prophecy in the End Times" In this series, my pastor taught that if you understand the love and mercy of God that is found in prophecy in the end times you will not have fear or worry and will be quick to turn to Him for comfort in times of need and in desperation, according to Psalm 56:3. If you have a false understanding of the God who really does exist, then you will face both the present and the future with much fear and dread as this movie clearly portrayed.

There is a HUGE difference between your deeds and sins. What you will judged for at the judgement seat of Christ is what was your motivation behind doing the good deeds that you did? Were you motivated to do your good deed by the filling of the Holy Spirit or was what you did motivated by human good. If your good deeds are not motivated by the filling of the Holy Spirit, they will be burned up at the judgement seat of Christ, according to 1st Corinthians 3:10-15. However, if you believe in Christ and have faith alone in Him alone, you will be saved, even if all of your deeds are burned up at the judgement seat of Christ.

Again, your sins and the sins of everyone have been paid for IN FULL by the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross!!! Your sins are no longer an issue anymore, Jesus Christ is the issue now and again, the ONLY sin that anyone can commit that will cause them to be put in the Lake of Fire is to not believe in God's only begotten Son, The Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus is called Lord because He is deity and He has the same divine essence as God the Father and is equal to Him in every way according to John 8:58, John 1:3 and many other verses. Jesus not only suffered more physically than any human on this earth, but He was separated from God the Father, His Father while He took the punishment and judgement for all of your sins, my sins and everyone who would ever be born. He willingly took the judgement and the punishement that we as sinners all deserve everyday to take for our sins!!! ALL OF OUR SINS HE PAID FOR IN FULL FREELY AND WILLINGLY TO SAVE US!!! That is God's matchless Grace and Mercy and the meaning of the cross.

Not only does Jesus have the same divine essence as God the Father, but because He was born of a virgin (Mary) according to Isiah 9:6-7, Luke 1:30-35 and many other verses, He does not have a sin nature like we all do when we are born. The sin nature that we have is passed down from our fathers. Since Jesus was not conceived from an earthly father, He has no sin nature and therefore, did not sin, not even once when He was on this earth. He never feared death and He always knew that His true home and Kingdom was in Heaven with God the Father. Since Jesus is both true deity because He is God and true humanity by his virgin birth, and He never sinned, not even once, He was the ONLY one who was qualified to take our place on the cross, pay for all of our sins and die on the cross to save us. We are created beings who are sinners and there is absolutely NOTHING we can or could ever do to save ourselves. That is why God had to come down Himself and save us as Jesus Christ, the second person of the Trinity. What Jesus did was not impossible for Him as it would be for us because He is God and the Only One who could ever save us!!! God is an awesome God because He completely solved our sin problem for us with the finished work of Christ on the cross!!!! And that is not even the start of His Grace and wonderful blessings that He gives us, none of which we earn or deserve by the way.

Which brings me to my next point. Salvation - believing in Christ and having faith alone in Christ alone is something that only God through the Holy Spirit can accomplish for you, not something that you could ever accomplish on your own (like trying to somehow repay God for all that He has done for you, out of His endless Grace and Mercy - something that no human could ever do)! Faith is non-meritous because God does it for us, not because we earn it or deserve it, but because of WHO AND WHAT HE IS AND HIS CHARACTER AND NATURE!! Not even having faith in God is something that you can do on your own. Any faith you have in His Son, The Lord Jesus Christ comes from Him and not from you. As created beings and sinners, we are totally incapable to have any faith on our own and it is blind arrogance to think otherwise. satan (the enemy) is the one who wants you to believe that you can have faith on your own merits through faith plus works to keep you out of fellowship with God, so that that you won't be saved. And if you are saved, he wants you to be a useless, carnal Christian who refuses to simply confess his/her sins without any guilt to the God the Father, to be filled with the Holy Spirit to be in fellowship with God, so that you can live the true Christian way of life. Don't buy satan's lies that you have to do ANYTHING to "help" God save you, like walk down an aisle, repent of your sins, or invite Jesus into your heart to be saved. God does all the work for you to be saved so that HE gets all of the credit and the glory, not you. Believing in Christ and Faith alone in Him alone is all there is to it!!!

Let me clarify even more why it is so important for a Christian to simply confess their sins to God the Father.(1 John 1:9). Confessing your sins is something you do after you are saved (by believing in Christ and having faith alone in Him alone) and by the power of the Holy Spirit learn what a sin is through the Bible, which is the Mind of Christ. Again, the reason why you confess your sins is so that you can adjust to the justice of God and get back in fellowship with Him through the filling of the Holy Spirit. Why this is so very important is that it is ONLY through the filling of the Holy Spirit that you can learn the Bible, which is The Mind of Christ, through the teaching of your right pastor/teacher and the ONLY way that you can truly live the Christian way of life and fulfill God's plan for your life. You can't do any of these things through your own human power.

Your right pastor/teacher is a man who has the gift of pastor/teacher, who accurately teaches the Word of God (Bible doctrine) by going through the historical text of verses, comparing scripture to scripture and by going back to the original languages, Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic.

I hope this helps to answer your questions. My prayers continue to be with you.

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] Grace333 18 years ago

Ok, lets try this again from the top. However, the answers that I gave in my last reply to you and that I am gong to give to you in this reply are according to The Word of God, not from me and I could have very easily written alot more. If you want to think of me as a loon, that is ok since it is only God's opinion of me that matters, not yours.

Now I will address your first comment that you made about pastors trapping the weak. Unfortuntely, you are right, many pastors are not doctrinal and are ignorant of Bible docrine and how to apply it. It takes prayer and discernment from God the Holy Spirit for a believer to find their right pastor/teacher and since alot of believers are carnal and not filled with the Holy Spirit, they don't have that discernment. And finding the right pastor/teacher is the MOST important descison that a beliver can make, even more important than finding their right man/right woman. However, the MOST important decision of all is whether or not you will choose salvation by faith alone in Christ alone.

However, God is a God of order and in this dispensation of Grace(which is a period of time that we are in now), every believer has been assigned a pastor/teacher and this is according to 1 Peter 5:1-4, 1 Thessalonians 5:12-13, and Heb 13:17. It is the believer's job and responsibility to find his/her right doctrinal pastor/teacher who actually has the gift of pastor/teacher and who will very dilligently study and accurately teach the Word of God by going into the historical context of a verse, comparing scripture to scripture and then going back to the original languages, Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic as my pastor/teacher does.

Also, let me make it clear that my pastor/teacher never recommended this movie. The movie happened to be on one night on cable when I was watching t.v. The reason why I chose to see it was to see out of curiosity how doctrinal the movie was. Doctrinal means Biblical and there was NOTHING Doctrinal or Biblical about this movie at all as it absolutely did NOT portray the truth about God and how to get into Heaven. This movie was nothing but sheer hollywood nonsense and it actually portrays the lies that the god of this world (satan) wants you to believe about God and how to get into Heaven. And I will say it again to you, don't buy his lies!!! 2 Corinthians 4:4.

Yes, your deeds are actions and again your good deeds will be judged on whether or not you did them with the filling of the Holy Spirit. A sin is a sin and all of your sins were judged and paid for in full with the finished work of Christ on the cross. Your good deeds that are done with the filling of the Holy Spirit become treasure in Heaven that is greater than any treasure on earth and are rewarded at the judgment seat of Christ. Your human deeds that were done on your own power are burned up at the judgement seat of Christ, however, if you have faith alone in Christ alone, you are saved and get to spend eternity in Heaven. It is your choice. So what are your actions going to be? Are you going to continue to do them on your own power and have them all burned up at the judgement seat of Christ, or on God's power and get rewarded in Heaven?

Having faith in God through His Son, Jesus Christ is a choice and let me stress again that any faith you have is NOT something that you have on your own, it comes from God; He gives it to you. You choose to have faith by believing in Christ and having faith alone in Him. God is a true gentleman and will NEVER violate your free will to make you choose to believe in His Son. Choosing to believe in Christ as your Lord and Savior is something (an action) that you have to want to do. However, once you have made that choice, it is God who does all of the work to save you, not because you have earned it or deserve it, but because of Who and What He is. There is NO way and NOTHING you could possibly ever do to ever save yourself. Ephesians 2:8. And yes, choosing to do faith plus works is an action, but let me ask you, why would you ever do that if you know that after you did that, you wouldn't be saved? What an absolutely ridiculous waste of time!!!!

The reason why you confess your sins is to adjust to the justice of God by simply acknowleding that you sinned and got out of fellowship with Him. 1 John 1:9. You confess your sins to God the Father to be filled with God the Holy Spirit to get back into fellowship with God. Yes it is an action because it is your choice to just confess your sins and get back into fellowship with God or continue to walk around as a useless, ineffectual, carnal Christian (and by the way, staying out of fellowship with God is EXACTLY what satan wants you to do because he wants you to NOT live the Christian way of life and receieve blessings from God that would just stagger your imagination). We are completely responsible and accountable to God (whether you believe in His Son, Jesus Christ or not) for ALL of our decisons in life. Romans 14:12

As for the last question about God being 100% man and 100% God, I have already answered that one. However, I would be happy to give you more chapters and verses in the Bible that clearly prove that Jesus is 100% man and 100% God (this is called the Hypostatic Union)in another reply. I will also give you more doctrines, chapters and verses in the Bible that will back up any of my other answers to your questions that should make it very clear to you that what I am saying is NOT from me, but from God through the Word of God. In the end, however, it will be your choice to believe in Christ and in the Word of God. However, I will leave you with one analogy that was recently given to me that might help you start to understand the magnitude of the sacrifice that God the Father through His Son, Jesus Christ made for you and for all of us. I don't know your situation, but have you ever had someone in your life that you really loved alot, like a spouse or a child? If so, would you willingly die for that spouse or child to save their life? Most people answer yes to this question. Ok. Then let me ask you this - would you willingly let or want to see that spouse or child that you love so very, very much die for someone else or a group of people? Would you want that person that you love to die for people who hated them and treated them horribly and unfairly as Jesus was treated when He was on the cross for us? Would you want that person to take punishment and beatings that they didn't deserve to save those people who were treating that person that you love so much so horribly? Of course not!!! None of us would!!! That is the sacrifice that God made for us - He gave His only begotton Son for us to save us and Jesus more than willingly went through all of that suffering, none of which He deserved and which we could not even begin to comprehend, for all of us to save us. And His sacrifice saved us because He completely defeated satan (the god of this world), who in the end will be put in the Lake of Fire forever with all of those who choose of their own free will to not believe in Christ and have faith alone in Him alone. Revelation 20:7-15.

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] Grace333 18 years ago

Yes, you choose to believe in Christ and faith in Him alone (this is your choice or action) and then God the Holy Spirit does all of the work and gives you 40 Grace gifts at the moment of your salvation. Being saved means also believing that Jesus IS both 100% man and 100% God (believing that both His humanity and deity are united) called the Hypostatic Union.

And you are right, we are all too stupid to understand what the true nature and character of God on our own without God the Holy Spirit's help.

After salvation, in order for your faith to grow, you must choose (there is your action) to have positive volution towards learning the Word of God (this means wanting to learn and study the Word of God), which is also the Mind of Christ in order for you to start to learn about God and increase your faith. And no, it is NOT something you can do on your own because in order to understand the Word of God, you must first believe in Christ and have faith alone in Him alone along with believing that both His humanity and deity are united - John 1:12,Romans 8:14-17,Ephesians 1:13-14 and Romans 8:12-17(that is one action), confess any known sins - 1 John 1:9, 1 John 5-10, Psalm 32:1-5 (another action) to be filled with the Holy Spirit - Galations 3:26-28(Who is your true mentor and teacher), Who will help you to understand what your right pastor (Ephesians 4:12)is teaching about the Word of God. And of course, it takes action (positive volution towards the Word of God), prayer and proper discernment that you get from the filling of the Holy Spirit to find your right pastor teacher. The more that you choose to learn about God (there is your action again), Who and What He is, His Perfect Character and Nature, and His endless, matchless Grace that He freely and willingly gives us, although we don't earn it or deserve it in ANY WAY through His Son, The Lord Jesus Christ, through His Word, the more you will start to understand your true purpose on earth (which is to glorify God in the angelic conflict and NOTHING else)! This is called non-meritous faith because it is not on your merits that you have that faith in the first place. It is ONLY your choice (your action), your volution to believe in Christ or not. And the more you choose to get to know Him, the more you will learn to truly love Him. Which makes total sense, don't you think? How can you truly love someone unless you get to know him/her? It's impossible! I study Bible doctrine on a daily basis through my right pastor/teacher so that I can learn about God through my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ and learn to love Him more and appreciate more what He has done for me. There is just no other way to get to really get to know Him intimately as He wants us to.

And I am NOT talking about religion as religion can't save anybody, I am talking about a relationship with my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, Who is the ONLY way to God. That is Christianity. Religion is a lie invented by satan (the god of this world), which says that man is good enough and can do things on their own efforts and merits to get to God, which is absolutely NOT true!!! There is no good in us (as satan,the god of this world would have you believe). We are all sinners and NONE of us are good, not even one!! (John 8:34-36, Romans 3:10-18, Romans 3:23, Romans 5:12). ONLY Christ is called good because while He walked the earth, He was impeccable and sinless. He never once sinned in all of His 33 years that He walked the earth. We, however, can't even go 33 minutes,much less 33 seconds sometimes without sinning and having to confess our sins to to God the Father get back into fellowship with Him! Jesus never had to do that, NOT ONCE!!!

And as for paragraph 3, exactly what chapter and verses in the Bible are you referring to? I will be happy to give you the entire doctrine of the hypostatic union that I mentioned in the first paragraph, which teaches that my Lord’s deity and humanity were united, complete with chapters and verses from the Word of God, but be warned, that will be one very long reply.

Anthropopathisms ascribe to God human characteristics like anger and jealousy, characteristics which He does not have, in order to explain God’s policy or viewpoint to us in terms of human attitudes that we can understand. It is not blasphemy.

And there is one last thing. I am not trying to change your mind so that you will believe in The Lord Jesus Christ as that is between you and God. All I am doing is presenting you with the doctrinal information from the Word of God and NOT from me to answer all of your questions, whether you like the answers or not. My prayers are with you.

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] Grace333 18 years ago

There is simply no other way to get into Heaven - He is the only way to God and the only way to have eternal life with God in Heaven. And I didn't say that, God did in His Word, the Bible.

And now WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM, the Lord Jesus Christ, will NEVER perish, but has ETERNAL LIFE! Joh 3:16

The Bible says “The wages of sin is eternal death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Rom 6:23

The Bible says “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.” Acts 16:31

“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast.” Eph 2:8-9

My prayers are with you.

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] Grace333 18 years ago

Previously, you asked me about how could Jesus be 100% God and 100% man. Here are some verses that I wanted to share with you on what God says in the Bible about His Son, Jesus Christ. I could easily add many, many more Biblical verses that clearly prove that Jesus is both 100% God and 100% man united forever.

Hope all is well and my prayers are with you.

Jesus's Deity is the same as God's

Did you know that Jesus Himself told Nicodemus that He came down out of heaven?! Joh 3:13

Here the Lord was talking about Himself to Nicodemus, a so-called spiritual leader who should have understood these things…

John 3:13-15 " No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14 "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.

NASU

Jesus often talked about His preexistence; He knew He existed before becoming a man.

And here’s a big one…

Jesus told the Pharisees the He was around before Abraham of the Old Testament! Joh 8:57-58

Abraham lived thousands of years before Jesus was born!!!

Why would Jesus say this? Unless He is God and He existed in heaven before any of us!

John 8:53-59 "Surely You are not greater than our father Abraham, who died? The prophets died too; whom do You make Yourself out to be?" 54 Jesus answered, " If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, 'He is our God'; 55 and you have not come to know Him, but I know Him; and if I say that I do not know Him, I will be a liar like you, but I do know Him and keep His word. 56 " Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." 57 So the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" 58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." 59 Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple.

NASU

With this statement Jesus also claimed He was the same One as the God of the Old Testament, Jehovah Himself!!!

Jesus would often go off into the woods and pray by Himself with the Father. Why? Because He craved to share the glory that He shared with the Father before He became a man on the earth.

He would walk into the wilderness or up a mountain for hours and even days so He could be alone with His Heavenly Father, to recapture some of the atmosphere of His Heavenly Home.

Jesus also claims that He is the same as the Word of God, the Bible, and that the Bible existed “in the beginning with God”. Joh 1:1-2, 14

John 1:1-2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God.

NASU

Jesus's humanity

The virgin birth is difficult to believe only if you separate it from the unique Person that was born.

But knowing the One who came and lived the way He did makes it easy to believe the virgin birth, and the purity that came from it.

And doesn’t the fact that Christ pre-existed before His earthly arrival make a miracle of birth necessary?

Jesus was born of a woman without a man. He was uniquely born by God the Holy Spirit. Mat 1:20, Luk 1:35

Luke 1:26-35

Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city in Galilee called Nazareth, 27 to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, of the descendants of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. 28 And coming in, he said to her, "Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you." 29 But she was very perplexed at this statement, and kept pondering what kind of salutation this was. 30 The angel said to her, " Do not be afraid, Mary; for you have found favor with God. 31 "And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus. 32 "He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David; 33 and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end." 34 Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I am a virgin?" 35 The angel answered and said to her, " The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.

NASU

Luke 1:37

37 "For nothing will be impossible with God."

NASU

People don’t understand how a virgin could become pregnant. The answer is simple.

NOTHING is impossible with God. All people know that. Just look at the incredible glory of creation and you can see that.

For God this was easy, to make Mary pregnant by His Holy Spirit.

Turn to Mat 1.

Now Joseph was engaged to Mary, and when Mary told him she was pregnant by God, Joseph didn’t believe her. But the Lord helped him believe.

Matt 1:20-23

20 But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, " Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 "She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins."

And notice what is says next; this was written about in the Old Testament hundreds of years before this happened!

We have the only book with prophecy; with specifics predictions about what would happen in the future, and hundreds of predictions came true hundreds of years later!

22 Now all this took place to fulfill what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet: 23 "BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL," which translated means, "GOD WITH US."

NASU

If we accept that Jesus is the Son of God in human flesh, doesn’t belief in the virgin birth become logically inevitable?

Who could be the Father of the Son of God but God Himself?!

This miraculous virgin birth was not a surprise, not to the people that lived 2000 years ago that studied the Old Testament scriptures.

This birth was foreshadowed in the Old Testament.

The earliest prophecy implies this event in Gen 3:15, when the Lord spoke to the deceitful serpent (Satan) and said “I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; it shall bruise you on the head, and you shall bruise his heel.”

*Only here are the words “her seed” used. Elsewhere in the Bible seeds are mentioned as belonging to the man!

This is a reference to the unique conception by Mary from the Holy Spirit. A man would not be involved.

Then there was the sign divinely given to Ahaz in Isa 7:14. This prophecy was given to him 700 years before the birth of Jesus.

“a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call His name Immanuel”.

And the book of Matthew reminds us that Immanuel means “God with us”, another clear reference to the deity of this unique child that was born in a unique way.

Some people have trouble believing in the virgin birth because of the miracle involved.

But if Joseph and Mary were sinners like the rest of us, how could they have given birth to a sinless Man like Jesus?

Wouldn’t that be an even greater miracle?

Luk 1:47 records for us that Mary herself recognized she was a sinner, when she thanked the Lord her Savior.

Some churches worship Mary and they say she was sinless, but only Jesus was sinless. And only God deserves worship.

Luke 1:46-47

And Mary said:

" My soul exalts the Lord,

47 And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.

NASU

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] TheJesusAndMaryChain 17 years ago

When you die, you'll be six feet under not in heaven listening to harps and floating on a cloud, you crazy, rambling freak.

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[–] Mister_Magoo 18 years ago

"Again, It is only faith alone in Christ alone that saves us,NOT religion or being good, religious or moral."

Let's say there's a muslim person (or Jewish or Hindu, etc etc)) who commits their life to doing nothing but selfless acts, helping the poor and offering endless help and support for those less fortunate ~ someone who always thinks of others before him/herself. A person who truly embodies all of the most noble/loving/selfless impulses most people only aspire to......

you're saying that this person will go to hell and be condemned to unending suffering simply because they didn't recognize the Christian god as their saviour? this person will be condemned to endless pain and torment in hell, when say, a serial killer, who has done nothing throughout his/her entire life except commit the most evil atrocities imaginable, will go to heaven simply because he/she 'recognizes Jesus' at the 11th hour?

what kind of 'loving god' would do such a thing?

to completely disregard an entire LIFE dedicated to selflessness, only to let someone like Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer into heaven for ONE SECOND of saying 'you are my saviour jesus'?

How do you reconcile this with the idea of a 'loving' god?

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[–] Mister_Magoo 17 years ago

Wow, no one can respond to/explain the concept of a 'loving god' condemning 'good' people to hell just because they don't accept Jesus as saviour?

This is a rather substantial 'sticking point' for most non-believers. One would think that believers would jump at the chance to 'explain'.

Let's say there's a muslim person (or Jewish or Hindu, etc etc)) who commits their life to doing nothing but selfless acts, helping the poor and offering endless help and support for those less fortunate ~ someone who always thinks of others before him/herself. A person who truly embodies all of the most noble/loving/selfless impulses most people only aspire to......

you're saying that this person will go to hell and be condemned to unending suffering simply because they didn't recognize the Christian god as their saviour? this person will be condemned to endless pain and torment in hell, when say, a serial killer, who has done nothing throughout his/her entire life except commit the most evil atrocities imaginable, will go to heaven simply because he/she 'recognizes Jesus' at the 11th hour?

what kind of 'loving god' would do such a thing?

to completely disregard an entire LIFE dedicated to selflessness, only to let someone like Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer into heaven for ONE SECOND of saying 'you are my saviour jesus'?

How do you reconcile this with the idea of a 'loving' god?

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[–] TheJesusAndMaryChain 17 years ago

Mister Magoo, thank you for stating the obvious.

I love it when Mimi Rogers' character goes on about the arrogance of Christianity. I know some pretty selfless Jewish people (my mother grew up Jewish) and I find it truly offensive that after what they have historically endured, the freaky Christians claim they're all going to hell.

I'm 40. I grew up in a Baptist town, was raised around Christians. Hell, i even broke all my Led Zeppelin records at one period in my life. You know what life has taught me? That Christianity is a religion for weak people who are afraid to face the reality of what life is.,,chaos.

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[–] nihilistic_tyranny 16 years ago

Elizaday66, I know exactly what you mean.

I just love how all these fundamentalists think they're right.
I'm pretty sure you'd all agree that Mormons have it wrong, correct?
Newsflash: The rapture isn't really in the Bible.
It kinda-sorta hints at it, but you know who the first people to propose this were?
Mormons.
My uncle, a pastor, told my parents he didn't believe in the rapture, and they freaked.
Then he told them why, and it was very interesting.
They still believe in it though.
I guess they're just weak people.
So yeah, take that in your fundamentalist buttholes.

Gay people...robots in disguise!

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] Grace333 18 years ago

If you chose to believe in Christ and have faith alone in Him alone, then you are saved and can never ever lose your salvation. See ya in Heaven!

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[–] Grace333 18 years ago

Jesus was crucified on a wednesday and not on a friday. The true meaning of Easter has to do with the resurrection of Jesus after He died and paid the complete and total price for our sins on the cross that all of us should of paid, and has nothing to do with the easter bunny. The Lord Jesus Christ, the God-man, willingly, of His own free will, came down from Heaven to be born and live with the one purpose; to die and completely pay for the sins of the whole world, (whether or not anybody chose to believe in Him) on the cross. The sins of the whole world, trillions upon trillions of sins, were nailed to the cross with Christ for all of us in the world, past, present and future. Isn't that just awesome what Christ did for us? He was beaten and He suffered more than any human ever did or will again. However, it was His spiritual death - His separation from His Father(God) for three hours on the cross,is what saves us when we believe in Christ and have faith alone in Him alone (Isa 53:5, John 3:16, Acts 16:31). Jesus went through all of that suffering, both the physical and the spiritual with one though in mind - to save us and since He is co-equal with God, He did not have to do that. Christ had free will, just as we do and He willingly chose to execute God's plan for His life because He loves us so very much more than we can ever imagine!!! That is the kind of God that we have - One who was willing to give up His only Son for us and that is what we should remember and celebrate, not only on Easter, but everyday of our lives.

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] Grace333 18 years ago

Jesus suffered more than anyone on this earth because since he was perfect and born without sin, he was tempted in all things and not just some things as we are. Not only that, but He was tempted by the full weight of sin and not just the very small part of sin that is only the amount that we can handle. None of us have ever been fully and completely tempted in ALL things like He was and none of us ever will be that - thank God. Christ was tempted like that in all areas so that He could be sympathetic to all of our weaknesses and suffering that we go through here on earth so that He could be a Mediator/ Intercessor /Advocate for us. Also, on the cross, after He had been beaten worse than any man alive, God imputed all of our personal sins to His Son, Who knew no sin and was perfect and blameless. And Jesus, Who had never sinned and Who had no sin in Him, took in His body the sins of everyone in the world (trillions and trillions of sins) and was severely judged for them on the cross to pay for them, while He was also spiritually separated from His Father(God), whom He had never been separated from while He was on this earth because He was without sin and He never sinned. Nobody on this earth has ever suffered more than He did and why did He suffer so much? Because God is a God of justice and sins, ALL sins have to be paid for. Just think about that the next time you sin, that Christ took the wrath of God to and died both physically and spirtually to pay for all your sins and the sins of the world. And all you have to do is believe in Him and have faith alone in Christ alone to be saved and not have to suffer the wrath of God that Jesus took for you. And Christ would have just as willingly taken all of God's wrath for you alone, if you were the only one who needed to be saved. Yes, Christ would have gone through everything that He did on the cross, even if it was just you He had to save. You are worth that much to Him and to God Who created that plan to save you. And when someone gets saved, what is imputed to that person is not thier personal sins that were imputed to Christ, but God's perfect righteousness that is in His Son, and they get to spend eternity with God the Father and The Lord Jesus Christ in Heaven when they die or the Rapture happens. And The Trinity;God the Father, Jesus His Son, and The Holy Spirit now live inside that person and they are saved forever.

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[–] Xaria 15 years ago

yeah... jesus suffered terribly. he had the standard roman execution and died long before most people who suffered it. he then got to rule the universe.

what suffering and sacrifice...

'Just remember. I can complete a jigsaw using only my tongue. With the lights out.'

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[–] Fedorevsky 14 years ago

Wow Grace333, you are insane. You're in dire need of a steady diet of anti-psychotics.

One should judge a man mainly from his depravities.Virtues can be faked.Depravities are real.Kinski

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] mattchanning 18 years ago

Mimi Rogers' character in the film, saved though she is (and through the same exact means as in your lenghty and somewhat redundant PS), is not taken up to Heaven when the Rapture comes at the end of the film.

Why? She turned her life around. She truly wanted to please the Lord. She truly believed with all her heart that Jesus Christ died for her sins.

Could it be the sin of Pride?

She was so certain she was right, so certain she was doing exactly what God wanted her to do, and, after the Rapture happens, so disappointed when God didn't see it the same way she did.

And even more disappointed when it turned out God had other plans for her.

I think it's entirely possible that what people think the next world will bring, and what it will actually be like, might be two vastly different things.

Expect to be, if not disappointed, at least surprised.

Matt Channing
Oscar quality film music at bargain basement prices.

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[–] ableedingstoneheart 18 years ago

I think most folks, even those who are not Christian:
1. Are well familiar with biblical scriptures shared throughout this thread.
2. Understand (though may not follow) what the Christian bible states is the path to forgiveness of sin.
3. Agree that the main character in this film has critically misinterpreted the path to forgiveness and surviving the rapture.

Yes, the Left Behind series is often a trusted companion resource to understanding the Christian bible. However, the Left Behind series is clearly intended as a non-fiction religious work. With truly no disrespect to Christians, I might suggest that recommendations to read the Left Behind series when reviewing this film could be considered an apples-to-oranges type thing.

I did not take this film's intent to be a documentary or even dramatic interpretation of the bible. I could have misunderstood it, but I also did not take this film to be an attempt to disuade people from accepting Christ as one's savior, nor did I believe it to be an accurate telling of how to be forgiven of one's sins or what would happen during the rapture.

To me, the film seemed to be a dramatic story of one fictional woman's loneliness where, in her misguided, misinformed, and misunderstood search for god and meaning to her life, she ultimately commits the most heinous of all sins against the very god whose love and forgiveness she so desperately desires.

Several posts about the film feel heated and almost angry in tone about blasphemy. I'm not sure how to define "blasphemous," but "insulting" or "claiming to be true what is not true" come to mind.

Rather than feeling the author's intent was to insult Christianity by interpreting the bible incorrectly, I instead came away feeling pity for Mimi's character, as her obssessive search for god and peace, motivated by using a fraction of the bible's words taken out of context, resulted in her creating her own hell on earth and in the hereafter.

From this perspective, the film could be considered by some as not blasphemous, but rather an accurate illustration of the consequences when the bible's meaning and intent are misunderstood or when only a select few scriptures are misinterpreted and followed out of context instead of as a whole.

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[–] VivaMongo 17 years ago

Wow - so much discussion about this movie from a born again perspective.

I start to read the posts but, though I am familiar with the Bible, my eyes start to glaze over. So much arguing over interperating a film from a born again christian perspective - imagine how many interpretations there would be over the bible?

The point of this film is pretty clear - I would rather spent eternity alone in burning oil than eternity in heaven with the christians. That would be one DULL eternity.

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[–] phishpeaks 17 years ago

tbax23,

Hey, don't make the mistake of lumping all individuals - for whom the label "Christian" may be BROADLY applied - together into one amorphous, indiscriminate lump.

I could draw an allegory to Chris Rock's brilliant routine on the difference between "black folks" and "n-ggers" to make a point as to the basic, crucial distinction that should be made between what some ignorant people might wrongly see as common members of one indivisble group.

I trust you get my drift.

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[–] VivaMongo 17 years ago

Yep, you're right on that point. If there was a select group of christians that I could personally choose, I'd be probably be quite happy to spend, well if not eternity, at least a few years hanging out with them.

It's the fundamentalist born again people who don't just have faith but want to ram it down your throat as well as wanting to force everyone to live by god's rules as THEY interpret them. Those people I would not last an hour with before I was begging god to cast me into the nearest firey pit.

I have no belief in deities or a life after death. To me the concept of god is akin to "imaginary best friend" but if it helps you through the night - I have no beef with that and would even fight for your right to worship undisturbed. But if your faith is just not enough and you start lobbying politicians to force people like me to live by the rules of your imaginary best friend - then I'm coming out fighting.

I so enjoyed this film though it's years since I've seen it - the ending is pretty moving.

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] lenlarga 16 years ago

Leaving theology aside, this was a creepy movie, no matter what your individual beliefs.

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] lenlarga 16 years ago

The whole movie is disturbing but especially the end.

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[–] Chops-4 15 years ago

Your grammar appals me! You should have written: This movie "stank" and was blasphemous.

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[–] ofumalow 15 years ago

It's "appalls."

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