MovieChat Forums > Quigley Down Under (1990) Discussion > One BIG flaw in the plot, though a neces...

One BIG flaw in the plot, though a necessary one....


I loved this movie and rank it among my all-time favorite 'westerns', but I'm hung on one plot absurdity: Why did Marston ever allow his henchman to take Quigley's rifle along when they left in the wagon to dump him and the girl in the desert? That rifle would obviously have been a trophy to Marston; he'd have never let it go walkabout with his flunkies. The rifle had to end up back in Quigley's hands, granted. I just can't think of a clever reason to have let that happen, and neither did the film makers, it seems. Did I miss something in the way of an explanation? Or can anyone even offer a viable reason that they might have injected to avoid that apparent goof?

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that's what i was thinking. i watched Quigly yesterday, i remembered that he got left in the desert but i was trying to remember how he got his gun back, when we got to that sceen i was like, that was stupid.

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I suppose they could have orchestrated some sort of half assed escape in the night, in which Quigley takes his rifle with him. Then they could get caught by Marstons men after the escape. It just might have made for two reduntant crossing the dessert type scenes.
Still a great movie, it does kind of take you a bit out of the suspension of disbelief when those 2 Marston buffoons are carrying Quigleys sharp for no logical or viable reason.

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You're right, of course. Marston's whole plan was for long-range "hunting" of the aborigines, and there's no way he wouldn't PERSONALLY keep the finest long-range weapon available -- probably for his own "sport." In those times it was a lot harder to get your hands on a fine tool like that custom Sharps than it was to find or train someone to use it -- maybe not to Quigley's level, but certainly miles ahead of anything they had tried earlier.

Howver, I can't think of a clever way to keep that rifle in Quigley's hands at the critical moment, so apparently the writers didn't have better luck.

The biggest problem I have with the film (which I love anyway) is the sun coming up over the bay in the morning, when they're supposed to be in Western Australia. As I recall, John Wayne had the same problem in The Green Berets, since it was filmed in California, where the sun goes down over the ocean, rather than Vietnam, where it comes up over the ocean.

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Good point, Blove. The fact that they not only took the rifle with them but also the shell belt and his hat?

A small absurdity but a very good movie.



I spend my money on dope, sex and cheap thrills.
The rest of it, I waste.

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I noticed it but also thought it was in the hands of the "lead" henchmen therefore he was the one to get the gun he would not leave it behins for fear of another dude getting it.

A much bigger plot hole or mistake was how quickly the Aboriginal men were able to gather and show up en mass at the end. As I understand the groups were usually fairly small and spread out plus they did not share a common language. Not sure how they would have been able to be summond in such a large group.

Oneother note I don't think that any port town is a "days ride" from where Quigly left the girl. Maybe so.

Cool flick though. I love the fact they filmed in Apollo Bay and Warnamabool and I have been lucky enough to visit both places.

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Yeah, the 'escape in the night' idea might have worked if Quigley and the girl got caught the next day. It could've shown Quigley as having been tough enough to get away even after being roughed up, though escaping with the girl too would've then stretched credibility to the max. But I like that idea rather than the way it happened in the film. I was also thinking that Marston's lead henchman might have demonstrated special knowledge / fondness of the Sharps during Quigley's original demo of the rifle, and tossed out the comment that he'd give it a test on Aborigines en route back from dumping Quigley and the girl in the desert. Just a comment or two would've covered it, and the shell belt, though maybe not Quigley's hat too.

I also noticed the way the huge number of Aborigines showed up almost magically at the end, but felt the groundwork for that kind of mysteriousness was laid in advance in the way they quietly appeared and left after rescuing Quigley and the girl. Obviously time (weeks?) passed during Quigley's recuperation with the Aborigines, and word had spread about his championing them. I can buy the Aborigines planning the mass gathering around Marston's place, especially after news spread about the incident at that coastal town, and the knowledge that Quigley was going back for revenge. It might have been asking a lot to presume the Aborigines could act in such a coordinated way, but again I was able to just barely buy it for the sake of the plot.

On the nearness of the port town to the dingo cave, I also bought that by rationalizing that a single, experienced horseback rider could make much better time than the wagon and heading due west to the coast. I also assumed the wagon might have travelled mainly north or south from Marston's station, not necessarily further due east (although I believe the most barren desert may have been further east in actuality in Oz).

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I too had found myself trying to explain why the henchman was carrying the Sharpes. The way I rationalized it was that Marston prefered the Colt. Rifles were for the servants to hunt with, but the Colt was for the elite gunslingers. Therefore he would have no use for it and would probably not know how to use it.:) The head hench I had always took to be Dobkin. Maybe they cast lots on who got the rifle. The part I found a little hard to understand was taking them "two days" into the desert. One would have been enough in their condition. Why not kill them with Aboriginal weapons and pin it on them? That's what I would have done. But I did like the idea of the henchman trying out the rifle on the way back. As for the Aborigines showing up "magically" I thought it was pretty clear that it was magic. They appeared out of nowhere and disappeared in broad daylight. All in all a great movie and one of the three movies I saw preparing myself for my trip to Europe. The other two were "The Third Man" and "Last Tango in Paris".

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Yeah, I could definitely buy that way of plugging the plot hole. Though I strongly suspect that Marston would want to seriously play with the Sharps and try it out on long-range plinking for the Abos. That was his entire goal in bringing on outside sharpshooters. But I can see the guys asking Maarston if they could take the Sharps along on the trip to plink at some aborigines on the way, since they normally kept out of "normal" rifle range.

Only good suggestion so far, and I like it.

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Love this movie, in fact I'm watching it right now on movieplex. My best guess for Marston not keeping the Sharps is that if Quigley's and the girl's bodies were found, Marston might have to pass off their deaths as "accidental." Something like, "Silly Yanks, didn't like it here, packed up and walked off. Aboriginies/elements/dingoes must have got them." He wouldn't want any evidence around so the rifle would have to go. Henchman gets order to dump bodies (rifle included) but decides to keep unique arm as trophy. Viola, no plot flaw.

Optimists say the glass is half full.
Pessimists say the glass is half empty.
I'm a realist.
I just want to know who's been drinking my water.

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I like it gamehens! After the heats off his possesion of the rifle wouldn't be an issue because he could have 'found' it in the desert, on an Aboringie.

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That's the best idea I've heard too, gamehens, though detroit442's suggestions were good too.

OFF SUBJECT: This movie's message board is the first time I've put comments up on IMDb, and am pleasantly surprised how much interest there's been in old movies to still inspire folks to comment on these little details. Very cool! I'll have to explore some of my other old favorite movies' message boards to see what's been brought up. It'll be even more interesting to see if any of the same people here also found them as inspiring as I did. People who dwell on such trivia must think alike; I'd be curious to see what some of your other favorites are. Or maybe there's already a different subsite on IMDb with movies recommended as "great, but easily missed" or some such designation for Quigley-quality flicks that never got much fanfare. If anyone knows of such a place online, please share. In the meantime, I'll revisit (via NetFlix) The Third Man and Last Tango in Paris a la detroit442's mention of them.

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The movies I mentioned are really opposites of each other. Which is why I chose them. In Quigley, the American was very clever/competant. In The Third Man the American was naive/incompetant. In the Last Tango in Paris, the 40+ year old American was hooking up with a twenty year old as I did. As for other movies, IMDB has just about everything and plenty of people to discuss things with. You can also click on the username of someone and see what movies they commented on and read their comments. And welcome to IMDB!

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2(3) things folks:

1. Matthew Quigley was supposed to die stranded in the desert. With his gun, perhaps, he was more identifiable, i.e. Marston didn't kill him.

2. Quigley is from Wyoming... in the mid-19th century (if not now) that was not a 'nice' place to be. They left because they are Americans, and had never planned to live in Australia. They were travelers, not immigrants.

3. Quigley is from Wyoming - NOT MONTANA (no one here made that mistake, but IMDB appears to think he is).

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Excellent analysis gamehens! You've just shot a Quigley size hole through the premise of this thread (and all the conjecture.)
Your scenario makes perfect sense, after the dingos and vulures get through with them, should someone come across the remains, the rifle would be the key to confirming that they had wandered off in the desert and got lost. Even if someone came across the remains and didn't tell anyone, they could never resist taking Quigley's rifle, it was so well known by then as soon as it showed up in a town or village people would interogate whoever had it and hear the sorry fate of the yank who wandered off in the desert.

Whether gamehens astute answer is indeed what the writers and producers were thinking is another story altogether!

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they had to make it look like they died in the desert, so when the British soldiers found them, no suspicion would be cast on Alan Rickman. If Rickman had kept the rifle, it would be evidence that he killed Quigley.

Not a plot hole at all.

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Unless the redcoat patrol just happened across the bodies within a day or two, it's not likely there would be anything "identifiable" left of them once the dingos and vultures had their fill. The only marginally identifiable evidence might be Quigley's distinctive leather chaps/trousers -- you know, those indestructible things that were hardly even dirty after being dragged at top speed over the desert?

Keep in mind also that no one, as far as we know, knew ANYTHING about Quigley or that Sharps rifle except Marston & his boys, up to that point. Even if everyone knew Marston had the custom-made Sharps, there is nothing to connect it to Quigley.

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The rifle had been seen by NOBODY except those at Matston's ranch up until the point that Quigley starts shooting the ones exterminating the aborigines.

Several people seem to have missed that point, probably because they haven't watched the movie 15 or 20 times, as I have.

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I think that's right. Marston was somewhat legalistic. Remember when he had the deserter in hand? He untied the guy while he was next to his gun, setting up a situation so that Marston could shoot him and tell himself that it wasn't just cold blooded murder.

He didn't want Lt. Colombo showing up later.

"Now, you say that Mr. Quigley and his female companion, what was her name? Cora, that's right, Crazy Cora, decided to leave your generous employment and head off to seek their fortune in the wilds of Australia. It's not completely understandable why someone would want to leave such a benevolent situation, but I can maybe understand why someone would do that. But I just have one more question, Mr. Marston. If Mr. Quigley, a world class marksman, was heading out on his own, why didn't he take his rifle with him? The primary tool of his trade, and he leaves it behind. I just don't understand why would he do that? Do you know why he would do that, Mr. Marston?"

Marston also later set up Quigley for a similar demise, giving a pistol to make it look like self-defense.

Completely in character. No plot hole.

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Not likely the local redcoats are going to give much grief to one of the largest landowners in the area. Did they give a damn that Marston was exterminating the aborigines as fast as he could find them within rifle range?

Besides, you are forgetting that Quigley didn't even unwrap his Sharps until he had arrived at Marston's ranch. How would the redcoats or anyone else know about it?

Until the aborigines started passing the tales about the American who was killing Marston's men, no one could have connected that rifle with anyone.

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Sorry to reply to such an old thread, but I am watching it on Netflix now...

> Marston might have to pass off their deaths as "accidental." Something like,
> "Silly Yanks, didn't like it here, packed up and walked off.

This in fact does happen. When the English soldiers show up with the bodies of the two guys who were sent to dump Quigly & Cora their leader says something vague like "We found two bodies in the outback, maybe you can help us identify them?"

Marsten responds with something like "Oh yes, we had a pair of deserters recently; the bodies are of a man and a woman?"

When the soldier says "No, two men, one stabbed and one shot" Marsten realizes Quigly killed his men

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Marston and the local redcoats seemed to have a rather congenial relationship anyhow (hardly unusual in any frontier area), so I doubt that possession of the Sharps would cause him any worry. He could always keep it in a closet for a while anyhow, to make sure the visiting Major wouldn't see it hanging on the wall. To the British Major, probably any Sharps would look like another anyhow.

No evidence that anyone except Marston & his men knew anything about the custom Sharps, or Quigley's skills, anyhow. To everyone else, until the very last part of the movie, he was just another American that came on a ship. Toward the end of the movie perhaps the redcoats MIGHT have picked up some gossip about Quigley and the Sharps, but not at the point that Marston dumped them in the desert.

Marston could say he had gotten the Sharps anywhere, or even bought it from Quigley. Who would there be to dispute it?

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The British upper class, which was what Marston would be considered himself, were not the least opposed to using rifles, especially high calibre big game rifles, which is what a Sharps rifle was.

Considering the understanding Marston had with Major Ashley-Pitt, would he bother himself about two more dead bodies, especially if there were no bullet holes in them? I think that we must chalk this up to the exigencies of the plot, which required that the rifle stayed in Quigley’s hands.

However, I think they could have found a better way for Quigley to get the upper hand. Again, why would Marston leave £50 in gold in the hands of someone he was dumping in the desert? Fifty pounds was quite a piece of change at the time. Quigley would have been paid £10 a month if he accepted the chore that Marston set him.

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[deleted]

If you took the time to actually read a thread before responding to it you might actually post a useful or pertinent comment.

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Yeah, I now see it as a flaw.

Marston needed someone or some way to kill the skittish Aborigine.

I think he would have kept the custom rifle and used it for this goal.

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One explanation could have been if that cowboy was the best one with shooting it and he took it along to pick off some aborigines along the way.

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Ye Olde Sig Line:

Liberals kill with ABORTION.
Conservatives kill with the DEATH PENALTY.
I kill with THOSE and WORDS.

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Except: Quigley had been seen with Marston and (obviously) with his rifle. If Quigley had been found dead without his rifle, and Marston had it, even the Major would not have been THAT stupid...

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You don't bother to read threads before responding, do you?

"if it was any good they'd have made an American version by now." Hank Hill

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After reading the first few responses in this thread (some from you in which you clearly hadn't worked out the simple and obvious logic involved), I got bored and decided to cut to the chase. It's called poor attention span: something with which you seem to be familiar. So sue me.

Your sarcastic response to the other one who worked it out for themselves kind of missed the point that whatever happened to the bodies, if they were found within a short enough time, they might be identified: in which case keeping the rifle would be less than intelligent.

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Just click on "nest" and you can peruse the thread rather quickly. Although that does seem like a bit much for a generation that has the attention span of a gnat.

"if it was any good they'd have made an American version by now." Hank Hill

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And which generation would that be?

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Nobody but Marston & his ranch hands had even SEEN the Sharps. How would the townapeople or the Major's troops know anything about Quigley, or his rifle, or his shooting expertise before the aborigines started passing the tales around town? Which was only AFTER Quigley began sniping at Marston's thugs.

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Addressing the original question- maybe Marston wanted the guy with Quigley's rifle to shoot any aborigines they encountered along the way. Marston was SOOO into being a gunslinger maybe he didn't care about the rifle much. He might have seen it as a convenient tool to be used to carry out his original intention- the slaughter of the aborigines. Don't get hung up on such trivial sh!t.

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