MovieChat Forums > Quigley Down Under (1990) Discussion > More Pistols Questions

More Pistols Questions

posted 8 years ago by dannieboy20906
5 replies | jump to latest

The movie seems to be set in the 1870's, possibly the 1880's. Fully encased, brass cartridges that incorporate primers are clearly in production. Wikipedia says that Quigley's rifle is an 1874 Sharps, though they don't show a citation for the year of manufacture.

1874 is a year after Colt puts the Model 1873 Single Action Army into production. I am sure that it is not the only pistol in manufacture at the time that uses fully encased, brass cartridges that incorporate primers. I think Smith & Wesson, Remington, and Webley had all started production of cartridge pistols by the time Colt did.

So, why in the heck is Marston and crew still using old Colt cap and ball pistols? Just because the look more rustic?

The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank.

[–] FMBSTB (7) 7 years ago

While there weren't too many companies manufacturing cap and ball pistols post 1873 there were still quite a few in use by people that either couldn't afford anything better, couldn't afford to have a gunsmith convert it to metallic cartridges (or didn't have access to metallic cartridges anyway, so why bother?) or had relied on them for so long that that's what they trusted with their lives and didn't see the sense in changing anything.

I can only assume Marston's goons fell into one of those first two categories, they didn't seem all that well to do. Not only that, assuming they converted them how easy would it be to get ammunition? A lot of those early conversion calibers were rimfire and non reloadable. Caps and powder were always available for purchase and with a mold any lead you had was a projectile, so maybe the choice of weapons was more pragmatic than we give them credit.

As for Marston himself, eh who knows? Maybe he fell into the third category. He was clearly skilled with them and they had done the job thus far. A firearm is a surprisingly personal thing, especially when it's how you make or protect your living so many weren't too quick to discard what worked even when 'new and improved' was available.

Or maybe they just wanted to make the Sharps appear to be more of a novelty so they pitted it against obsolete tech.

Or maybe the idea is that Australia is so remote that a lot of the newfangled stuff hadn't filtered down there yet.

OR maybe it's really pre 1874 and the Sharps is simply an anachronism in this movie...

[–] joegerardi (384) 7 years ago

Simply because they were half a world away from the US, where they were being made, across a continent from Australia's main city, and because back then they were tools that were replaced only when necessary.

Also, ammunition wasn't readily available, either. Easy to carry powder and ball, and they made the balls themselves.

Same reason they don't have Winchesters, and the first Repeater made by them was the 1866 model, and before that, the Henry repeater was available during the Civil War.

..Joe

[–] Checkman (29) 4 years ago

In the United States there were people carrying cap and ball revolvers well into the 1880s; as well as front loader shotguns and rifles. I have books with photos taken of hunters armed with civil war era percussion cap muzzle loader rifles in the 1900's. It took awhile for the logistics to catch up to those who lived on the frontier and in the still unsettled pockets after the frontier was declared closed by the Federal government in 1890. As stated by other posters people could cast their own lead balls and it was easier to obtain percussion caps and casks of black powder than brass cartridges - which weren't as reliable in the late 19th century as what we are used to in 2020. On a ranch (cattle station?) days away from the nearest city in the 1870's in Australia sticking with cap and ball revolvers and muskets/rifles would have made sense.

[–] Darren (1376) 3 years ago

Wild Bill Hickok (referenced in the movie, BTW) was killed two years after the introduction of the Colt Single Action Army in 1873, and he was still using a pair of muzzle-loading 1851 Colt navy revolvers when he died. Apparently this was by preference. As others have noted, people were still using black powder revolvers well into the 1880s. (They were still being used to a more limited extent even later, and I read somewhere that you could get nitrated paper cartridges for them into the early 20th century.).

But cap and ball persisted for a long time in frontier areas, because if you had a cartridge gun (or your old cap and ball revolver had been converted), and you're local vendor didn't have any cartridges to sell you once you'd run out, you were screwed. Loose powder and ball -- or just lead to mold your own bullets -- was nearly always available. So for a long time, certainly in the 1870s, a lot of people stayed with cap and ball because they knew they'd always be able to load and fire their pistols, and feared they might not if they switched over to metallic cartridges.

[–] MaximRecoil (4732) 7 months ago

"and you're local vendor didn't have any cartridges to sell you once you'd run out, you were screwed."

Not exactly. For people concerned about that sort of thing, all they had to do was save their brass (easy to do with revolvers, since they don't fling the brass into the air when you shoot like autos do) and get reloading equipment/supplies. They've made portable reloading kits, like the "Lee Loader," for ages, which fit in a box about the size of a church song book. And reloading with black powder (which is all they had in the 1870s) is especially easy, because you don't need to measure the powder like you do with smokeless powder, therefore no scales required. The size of those old cases were designed for the amount of black powder they were intended to use, so you just filled the case with black power and stuffed a bullet on top.

"Loose powder and ball -- or just lead to mold your own bullets -- was nearly always available."

You also need percussion caps, just like you need primers if you're going to reload metallic cartridges. I doubt many people cast their own balls/bullets, but for people who did, it can be done just as easily for metallic cartridge reloading as it can be done for cap-and-ball guns.

Also, I doubt there were many stores in the 1870s that stocked powder, caps, and balls that didn't also stock metallic cartridges.