MovieChat Forums > Psycho IV: The Beginning (1990) Discussion > Question (possible plot hole)

Question (possible plot hole)

posted 17 years ago by SirTopher813
12 replies | jump to latest

In the original film Norman tells Marion Crane that his mother's boyfriend talked her into building the motel, but in this film the motel is already in existence atleast a year before she even meets him. In the film (Psycho IV), it's revealed that Norma started going to a "cheap bar" where she met her suitor (the bartender), so it's not likely that she knew him for an extended period of time, muchless well enough to convince her into building a motel. Anyone care to take a shot at this one?

"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house."

[–] wallacesawyer 17 years ago

I think it is a plot hole. I remember reading when Joseph Stefano was hired to write a third sequel, Universal wanted him to ignore the previous two films. Only problem was when he actually wrote the screenplay, in ways he even ignored the original film.

[–] SirTopher813 17 years ago

LOL, too funny, yet sad...

"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house."

[–] Wolf1880 17 years ago

i like to think of it this way

Norma and Emma Spoole were sisters

Norma had a boyfriend who talked Norma into putting up the money to build the Motel. Later on they broke up Norma met a richer man they got married had a baby named Norman. the Motel was named "The Bates Motel". Next thing we know Emma Spoole kills Norman's father in a jealous rage by unleashing a hive of bees on him stinging him to death. Norma get's her son back safe and unharmed, Emma get committed

Events of Psycho 1 take place.

Events of Psycho 2 take place and Norman is told by Emma that SHE is his biological mother, Norman kills Emma Spoole and stuffs her like one of his animals.

Events of Psycho 3 take place

Events of Psycho 4 take place, we learn Norman was 6 when his father was killed by being stung to death by the hive of bee's unleashed by his Aunt. we learn his earliest kill were between the ages of 15 when he killed his mother, and and 16 when he killed the girl who wanted to have sex with him. then from 16 to mid 20s (24-26) he was left alone until he met Marion Crane in Psycho 1. so to the best of our knowledge "the girl who wanted to have sex with him" was his last kill until marion crane. and more than likely it was a different BF not Chet who talked her into building the motel. so it went BF who talked her into building motel, Husband, Husband dies, Chet. this way all 4 fit together.

Cause remember other references are made to the other 3 movies. Norman says in Psycho IV "i've killed near a dozen people!" we don't see him kill even CLOSE to a dozen with just parts 1 and 4. in 1 he kills marion, sam, and arbogast. in for he kills the girl who wanted to have sex with him, his mother, and chet. that's just barely HALF a dozen. so he must be counting the kills in parts 2 and 3. Norman talks about his kills 4yrs before Psycho IV, since psycho 2and 3 are a month apart the kills 4yrs prior must be the ones in psycho 3 and 4. Since we know that you can only get close to a dozen victims by adding up all 4 films you know they must all be connected to one and other.

[–] SirTopher813 17 years ago

The motel was built during Norman's childhood. I don't think it adds up, I think that's how you'd like to think it went.

"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house."

[–] Mr_Ghostface_Lives 17 years ago

You said:
"Norman says in Psycho IV "i've killed near a dozen people!" we don't see him kill even CLOSE to a dozen with just parts 1 and 4. in 1 he kills marion, sam, and arbogast."

-- Actually, in PSYCHO he kills Marion and Arbogast. He doesn't kill Sam. Sam Loomis dies some time in between PSYCHO and PSYCHO II, as established in Lila's conversation with Sheriff Hunt in the second movie. Also, and you're missing a big point here, we're told that Norman has killed six people. Lila also re-establishes this in her early scenes in PSYCHO II.

"in for [sic] he kills the girl who wanted to have sex with him, his mother, and chet."

-- Are you blind? We see him kill TWO women before his Norma and her boyfriend. That's four. We can probably assume that the past murders we see are part of the six we are told he's killed, but that's a minimum of six people so far.

Then at the end of PSYCHO II we see him kill Emma Spool. That's SEVEN.

"That's just barely HALF a dozen. so he must be counting the kills in parts 2 and 3."

-- And why WOULDN'T he count the murders in PSYCHO III? He killed them! The girl Duane Duke picks up. EIGHT. Duke himself. NINE. And Norman probably counts himself responsible for Maureen's death. TEN.

So, Norman says he's killed damn near a dozen people. Well, he has. Sure, not 12, but he says nearly, and he's trying to make a point when he says it. So, what he says is fine.

"Never underestimate the power of denial."
American Beauty

[–] claptonisgod53 17 years ago

Actually he kills eleven people.

In psycho 3, there's Duane Duke's girl, Duane himself, Maureen's death... and he also killed the girl in the bathroom. That's 11 when you count all the people that Mr Ghostface Lives have mentioned... so yes... he has killed near a dozen people.

[–] highlander1592uk 14 years ago

Don't forget, re the motel, that he says he watched Mother and Chet through a hole in the wall his father had made meaning the motel must have been built when his father was alive. This contradicts what he tells Marian in the first movie.

[–] HombreOfAnotherEra 12 years ago

You said:
"Norman says in Psycho IV "i've killed near a dozen people!" we don't see him kill even CLOSE to a dozen with just parts 1 and 4. in 1 he kills marion, sam, and arbogast."

Was Sam Loomis (Marion's Boyfriend) killed in Psycho? I thought he survived?

[–] mikeoak840 17 years ago

Maybe she had an earlier boyfriend who talked her into building the motel.

[–] lord_byron101 17 years ago

to Wolf1880; that's a pretty clear time-line; nicely done. Only problem is that Sam does not die in the original Psycho. He's present during the doctor's diagnosis of Norman. Otherwise, nicely done.

[–] Candyhearts27 13 years ago

SPOILERS

NORMAN'S VICTIMS

Norma
Chet
Holly
Gloria
Marion
Arbogast
Ms Spool
Duke
Maureen
Red
Patsy

OTHER VICTIMS THAT NORMAN DIDN'T KILL BUT WERE KILLED

Mary
Lila
Josh
Kim
Toomey
Mr. Bates
Dr. Raymond

[–] Rainey-Dawn 10 years ago

Maybe Norman told a fib - a lie - to Marion Crane in order to help "cover up" some things about his 'mother'. Or, maybe, Norman may have been 'confused' at the time (if you catch my meaning). Norman lie? That is really out of his character - he's not known to be a liar (a murderer but not a liar).

Plot hole? Maybe. But the 4th film is still a good film!

"I am invisible, understand, simply because people refuse to see me." ~ The Invisible Man