How true is it that the Laserdisc contained the uncut version of the movie?
Ive yet to speak to anyone who has seen the uncut print. If anyone has seen it, what are the differences?
I was under the impression Warner Bros. used to have a policy against releasing unrated material.
GAV
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Another post had the same question, here's how I replied:
The running time on the laserdisc jacket lists it as 91 min., same running time as the dvd (which I have not viewed). Saw it at the theater and bought the Warner Home Video laserdisc when it came out (about 6-8 months later, not like today when a film reaches dvd in 3 months or less), and did not notice it being any more brutal or foulmouthed than what I saw at the show. Also, the laserdisc does have an R rating.
I do know that in a written interview with Willam Forsythe (Ritchie) he mentioned Seagal sat in the editing room and trimmed down a chunk of Forsythe's screen time. Other than that I'm not sure what another cut would contain, the film was pretty brutal for its time.
To my knowledge, there is no alternate cut on home video. If there is a variant running time listed between the VHS and LD releases, it's a mistake. Such listings for running times can't always be trusted.
Having met Forsythe earlier this year, I discussed "Out For Justice" with him as it's my favorite film of both his career and Seagal's. He mentioned that the film was intended to be far more violent and that the role was psychologically the toughest for him (next to his upcoming portrayal of John Wayne Gacy). I always felt that Seagal's films, up to that point, set a new standard (and developed a reputation) for the type of then-shocking violence not usually found in mainstream action fare. Certainly, any of his later films had to be carefully constructed in the editing process to avoid any further altercations with the MPAA, and "Out For Justice" is surely no exception.
Congrats on meeting Forsythe, great underrated actor. I always considered Above the Law to be Seagal's best film, but now realize it was the introduction of Seagal that impressed me. Out For Justice is perhaps the superior film, I've certainly watched it far more times than Above the Law.
You are quite correct as far as Seagal's film violence. Just look at Marked for Death, he gouges out the eyes, breaks the back, then chucks down an elevator shaft the Jamaican drug lord. With today's action film carnage, it may be hard for some to understand the role Seagal played in creating a new standard in mainstream action violence, I would equate it with Stallone's introduction of graphic gore (usually reserved for horror films) in the 2008's mainstream action film Rambo. Seagal's films also were successful in presenting the realistic impact of combat. I mean he was not gentle with his stunt people! His blows made full contact with many, I suppose it went from his demonstration days with Japanese practicioners to laying out Hollywood stuntmen. At any rate, many films now look to achieve the same type of realism.
"Screwface?! I don't know no Screwface!" Ahh, I loved "Marked For Death". Yeah, I feel the same way about "Above The Law". I love it, but I keep coming back to "Out For Justice" and "Marked For Death". "Hard To Kill" and the "Under Siege" films are pretty much guilty pleasures.
Agreed on Stallone's "Rambo". I can remember how much attention was made towards the violence in "Rambo III" at the time, and with the exception of a few films with high body counts like "Total Recall," that type of realism is seldom seen in an action film. Usually, it's reserved for war movies that seem to get a free pass on the carnage.
"Saving Private Ryan" is a good example of the free pass you mention, so much so that it aired unedited, flying limbs and all, on broadcast tv mostly due to the clout Spielberg possesses. Your citing of Total Recall is a great example of realistic violence, I remember audience reaction (a mix of shock and laughter) when Arnold grabs an innocent bystander and uses him as a human shield, an act thats become standard in action films today (though it's usually with a villainous henchman). Personally, it's easy for a mainstream film to mishandle realistic graphic violence and lose me completely. For example Taxi Driver, not an action film per se but could easily be one, uses it effectivly. Kill Bill employs it throughout, but the kill scene with Daryl Hannah and Michael Madsen, though realistic, stops the film dead in it's tracks. Of course just my opinion.
shareGreat examples. "Taxi Driver" is a masterpiece. Few films embrace the intensity and thought process that goes into the eventual violence. Also, Bickle's justification completely works for the character.
I was definitely thinking of the human shield sequence of "Total Recall". Good call. I remember Movieline did an article around that time rating film violence in everything from Buñuel to Verhoeven and, if memory serves, "Total Recall" topped the lot at the time. Sam Peckinpah's films were all over that list, and next to Scorcese, I think the violence in his films is done quite well.
In my opinion, "Kill Bill, Vol. 2" is far superior to the first film. A great slow burn, character study and a complete contrast to the over-the-top nature of the first volume. I prefer it for the same reason that people believe the first volume to be the better film.
Would hate to see how many films would flounder without Taxi Driver's influence. Not just the character study aspect (most recently Christian Bale in Harsh Times), but the actual violence. Look at the climax of "Death Sentence" (w/Kevin Bacon), much of it lifted straight out of Scorcese's film. Everything from the fingers shot off, the neck wound, to Bacon slumping down to a sitting position (eventually next to his victim/opponent). Also the scene involving the purchase/obtaining of firearms has become a staple in action films, but none top DeNiro's hotel room interaction with the illegal gun dealer. A nice companion piece to Taxi Driver would be Rolling Thunder (both written by Paul Schrader), I'm guessing you've probably seen it. I love how, by the time William Devane gets around to calling his war buddy, Tommy Lee Jones is so wired from his non-adjustment to civilian life he doesn't ask a single question. It's just "Lets go". The comraderie is also similar to The Wild Bunch just looking at each other, grabbing their pistolas and carbines, and strolling out towards their doom in silence.
You now have me curious, I'll have to watch Kill Bill Vol. 2.
"Death Sentence" is definitely an homage to the raw revenge films of the '70s and "Taxi Driver" is clearly an influence. And, of course, being a Brian Garfield property, "Death Wish" is written all over it.
I love the criminally underrated "Rolling Thunder" and Paul Schrader films in general. I too love how the connection and social disconnect that Devane and Jones share is explored. One of my favorite moments occurs before the big "shoot-out," when the prostitute asks Jones where he's going, to which he bluntly responds, "I'm gonna kill a bunch of people."
"Hardcore" sort of rounds out a nice Schrader trilogy, even though Columbia Pictures put a ton of pressure on him to change the ending from realistic to pure and hopeful. A bit ironic, as Columbia also handled "Taxi Driver," with far less interference.
Nice play, by the way. Mentioning "Rolling Thunder" brings us full circle to the initial subject of this thread, since both films were directed by John Flynn.
I was only vaguely familiar with Hardcore, so now recognize the simlilarity the later film "8mm" has to it. 8mm had an intersting premise but was, I believe, a flawed film for whatever reason, some of it worked, some of it did not. So it will be interesting to see the idea done properly in Hardcore (once I score a copy).
You give me too much credit, the connection was unintentional! But I will say I consider John Flynn an underrated filmaker. He doesn't seem to have a large filmography, but even if he had only directed Rolling Thunder and Out For Justice he's earned my respect. I even enjoyed his film "Nails" though it's typically panned by others (though seeing a frail Dennis Hopper roughing up bad guys was a little humorous).
"8mm" is quite derivative and, yes, "Hardcore" is the most obvious influence.
Flynn, for some reason, I always considered a poor man's John Frankenheimer. I'm really not sure where I get that comparison. At any rate, I've never seen "Nails" and should. Flynn was an under-appreciated director. He had some good films under his belt. "Best Seller," "Lock Up" and "The Outfit" were all great. "Defiance" was a good, albeit watered down, take on the vigilante theme. And, I even liked "Brainscan," which is a bit of an oddity.
Flynn's films were somewhat gritty and for the most part economically shot, so I can see the comparison with Frankenheimer who came from a documentary background. Read a well writen interview with Flynn in a mag called Shock Cinema (#29). Some of the more interesting quotes included "I just have a fairly direct style of filmmaking. I'm very impressed by Clint Eastwood's work as a director, especially his more recent stuff like Million Dollar baby. I also admire the work of Jean-Pierre melville. Le Samourai is one of my favorite films". Also "Stallone is a really hard worker. I had no problem with him whatsoever". He enjoyed working with William Forsythe and his gang in Out For Justice, but of Seagal he simply says "But I didn't get along with Steven. He was always about an hour late for work and caused a lot of delays". Even Brainscan merits a mention, such as it was written by Andrew Kevin Walker (of "Seven" fame) and noting, humorously, that Edward Furlong was an actor that "You had to 'slap him awake' every morning. I don't want to get into knocking people, but I was not a big Eddie Furlong fan". I can't name many people who see a movie because Furlong is in it, so can't fault him there.
shareThanks for sharing that interview. Very cool. I can definitely see Seagal being difficult to work with, especially considering his popularity at the time. His claim of difficulty with Edward Furlong makes sense, plus he was a teenager at the time, which might have had something to do with it. I like Furlong, but I've noticed over the years that he tends to appear in films I would have already been watching anyway.
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