MovieChat Forums > Hardware (1990) Discussion > HARDWARE through a political eye

HARDWARE through a political eye

posted 20 years ago by eraceheadd
31 replies | jump to latest

Im a fan of this film, and have seen it many, many times. But i decided to watch it a few days ago after not watching it in years. It just so happened that i was watching the Ronald Reagan funeral stuff on TV (here in the states) and just suddenly felt compelled to through in HARDWARE, and while watching it, i saw the film in a completely different way.

Ive been through all the basic symbolism , and of course the religious aspects, but i never really picked up on the political angle until now. My theory is still fresh, but the basic idea here is that the MARK13 actually represents the Christian supporting country of America, and the other characters as parts of the overall machine.

The MARK 13 is obvious, Jill paints a nice big American flag on its head (duh, how did i miss this?) and she uses it in a piece that includes burned up dolls (destruction of youth/innocence) and is a big ball of twisted metal. The MARK 13 is a killing machine that will dominate anything alive and is also a religious Christian device.

Jill and Mo seem to represent the 2 sides of the American government, Democrat and Republican. Jill is an artist, a liberal, and she is on welfare. And Moses (obvious religious) is a solider, a grunt, working for the Christian machine. He argues with Jill, telling her "where do u think your welfare checks come from.." like most republicans, bitching about their money, taxes, and helping others. He is also all about "survival of the fittest". a very republican "rich get richer" attitude. Jill says the art is not for him, not for anyone... she is also a "dope" smoker, she is independent and works outside of the system. (im not totally sure if she is a democrat, but certainly a liberal, and mo is for sure conservative). But there is more.

Mo is "divinely" protected, asserting his christian beliefs. Jill is meditating in the beginning, and given her attitudes, probably not christian. Shades is also in a meditative/spiritual state when he drops acid or whatever it is he does. Both characters are showing a clear spiritual side that is not christian. And what happens at the end? Well, both non-christian characters live, and the American-Christian killing machine is destroyed and takes Mo down with it. Mo is ignorant to the power of the machine and it kills him in the process, this is basically a symbol for the pro-christian american machine destroying all in its path, even its own supporters.

Im i totally off base? i dont think so, there is clear evidence here that there are some serious political implecations. Even small remarks, like Lemmy talking of the state of the world, the clear "nazistic" images constantly on the TV, that imply political power, racism, torture and murder. Is this a knock against america? Against Christendom? Maybe - maybe not, but its damn interesting. The film was released in 1990, so filmed in 89 and probably written before that. I wonder if any (or many) historical event in the late 80s influenced these ideas for Richard Stanley. I will dig around and see what else can be found out.

Has anyone one else watched this film this many times to catch this stuff? (and I should probably thank you for taking the time to read all this :) My theory is still fresh, so i would love to hear some other comments, as im not fully sure of the "big picture" yet.

[–] rsklnkv 20 years ago

Nice take. I've seen some of the elements you mention but certainly not all of them. Good eye! So many things about this movie are sooo close to predicting the social fears of a widening culture of technologically aware people. This film was released in a time when many could feel the buzz of computers/technology. I think the promises technology had to offer at the time made some artists puke out some great prophecy. I think this movie is good, though the voyeur and shower stuff should have moved aside for some more pressing topics.

[–] neptune_metal_reviews 19 years ago

Nice "theory" I'll give you that. But in recent interviews, Stanley was asked these very questions about this film. He denied any Political connections. Take that for what it's worth. he said, that the m.a.r.k. 13's were for what the movie said, "population control". In the future, the population in the U.S. got out of hand due to immingrants, too many births, etc. (interesting huh?). "If" I can remeber where I read/found that, I'll gladly post it.

"We allllllll walk the wheeberly whobbely walk"

[–] uzielis 17 years ago

Hmm, no. To me it's only a movie. I love Stacy Travis. Barefoot. Ah.

[–] Hythlodaeus 9 years ago

Directors, writers, artists love to pretend that they didn't intend all the things they clearly intended. Clearly Stanley was purposefully putting some politics in, but he wants to play it off like it was an unintentional and therefor he is subconsciously a genius - poet and didn't even knowit.

Nothing wrong with an artist saying that they weren't setting out to make a political movie but uncoordinated political themes sort of naturally came up that he is not going to interpret or define for the audience, but there's no reason a director etc. should lie about their movies.

If you don't want to say, don't say but don't paint a robot with an American flag and then say there is 0% politics or implied politics in a movie.

Maybe he didn't say this, but your post seems to say it.

What hump? 

[–] Dziurlaj 20 years ago

Your arguments sounds good on the surface, but comes out little more then scratchy. You mention that the two non Christian leads live, but what about the three others? The two security officers did show any signs of being Christian. And Link is definitely crossed off that list. The gist I get when watching the movie is the largely Male vs. Female conflict. The robot doesn’t turn on until her boyfriend leaves, random? I think not. Remember the robot was designed to be “population control”. Women are the one beings capable of perpetual rebirth, so the robot was determent to solve the problem at its source.
The plot was hardly original, most of it coming from the “SHOK!” comics. If Stanley was trying to make a political statement, I would have to say that he has failed. The movie also has a Technology vs. Nature element. Quotes like “Its as if im fighting with the metal, and so far the metal is winning”. The Bible verse was more a ploy to murk up the water, so you cant see how shallow the water is. While this movie remains my all time favourite Sci-Fi movie, it is not without its faults. I liked the movie for its cutting edge cinematography, the very well synchronized soundtrack, and the emotional pull the movie has. NOT the plot. Just my 11 cents.

[–] eraceheadd 20 years ago

Very good points. I havent read the original comic that the story was based on, so i dont know what kinda political influence there was. There is certainly a strong feminine vs masculine battle going on (the mark13's drill = quite a falice) and of course the major, man vs nature.

The other characters, the building security: Link and Vernin, and the pervert Lincoln; its true, i dont see any clear indication of their spirituality, but of course they are all killed as well, even Elvy is killed. So the only survivors are Jill and Shades, the only characters who are shown to have any spiritual side that is not Christian. I dont wanna assume that those characters had no spiritual side (thought probably safe that Lincoln didnt) but the chance is there. Its not the fact that machine is only killing Christians, but the fact that shades and jill's spirituality played a part in their survival. The machine kills all, but maybe these 2 had something the others didnt.

I also enjoyed this movie for its visuals and the music - but it seems also there is a lot that can be dug into an interpreted.

One interesting note about Richard Stanley, in his bio is the documentary he did called "the Secret Glory" (has anyone seen this?) apparently about the Nazis search for the Holy Grail. This is very interesting subject matter and has quite a whirlwind of controversy around it, like the theories on jesus's life, his marriage to mary magdalene, and the continuation of his "royal" bloodline being the true holy grail. If Stanley does have interest in this subject - seems like more then a coincidence that Hardware would have such religious/political influences. Also interesting is the story of his grandfather: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1197506/bio

I have yet to make any clear connections here - but it all seems that it could lead to a bigger picture, or at the very least make for some fun speculation.

[–] clive-64 20 years ago

I know this comment may be a little off track from the main jist of this thread ( which, by the way, is very interesting ), but given the "SHOK!" comics reference, I had to respond. The original story was published in a british comic called 2000AD. It was a 3/4 page short story, cant remember much else about it except it prompted me to buy the video when it became available. I was pleased to find that the film retained the basic plot line all the way to the end of the original comic strip, something that rarely happens in conversions.

[–] grislyaftermath 20 years ago

If Mo is the grunt, putting his ass on the line, getting exposed to almost lethal amounts of radiation while on duty in the wastelands, while his "artistic" girlfriend stays home on welfare.. how is that a "rich get richer", "Republican" attitude? Republicans obviously don't want to support people that don't want to support themselves. Especially if you're sitting at home on welfare, smoking Marijuana all day (not that there's anything wrong with Marijuana, of course).

[–] eraceheadd 20 years ago

Good point - but he dosent really want to support her. He is complaining about her being on welfare, and that he pays for it by being out in the zone and suffering. He also dosent like her art, or even care about it. When he brings her the scraps of the mark 13 he says, "i thought maybe you could make an ashtray out of it or something", (maybe also commenting on her smoking of the wacky-tabacky), then he says, "it would just be nice if you sold somthing once in awhile, thats all im saying"... mo "really" dosent care that much about jill, he just wants someone to "do" and feel close to. Jill is much the same, they have nothing in common, but the world is a mess and its all they have.

MO is a pawn of the machine, he does what he's told and tries to make a buck while he can. He represents the american majority, and even though he would sleep with a liberal like jill, his beliefs are the opposite of her's.

[–] crazychris 20 years ago

i am SOO sick and tired of all the christian bashing going on. whatever the hell you are it all boils down to free will. the letter of Christianity- like communism is very benevolent. but its up to all of us what we do with it- if we so choose to.so they're against abortion and gay rights- you can't have your cake and eat it too- they have to stand for something! how 'bout some movies that bash those Muslim fundamentalist wacko's waging their Jihad on the west?wasn't there mass jubilationin the streets of the islamic world at 9/11 (it's just a small minority that hates us)?there's much more tolerance in the west than the arab world, try walking around over there wearing a cross and see how long before your head gets kicked in, then if you survive go to a cop over there and see what he does about it, he'll probably tell you its your fault for not being Muslim. WE HAVE HATE CRIME LEGISLATION OVER HERE. so little Hajii can go to school over here and not be in fear. oh i get it- its p.c to bash christians but not p.c to bash jihadists. Merry Christmas!!

[–] 20 years ago

[deleted]

[–] eraceheadd 20 years ago

I had to comment on this one...

You are talking about today's world and religion...Im talking about a "movie". The religious references in the "movie", the possible political allocations in the "movie. See? Get it? I understand your views, but you're going off on something not presented here or having to do with this film. I suggest hitting a political or religious board if you just want to talk about your opinions or beliefs. But if you want to ADD something to the discussion, take a lesson from clive-64 or the few others that have comments here and stick to the actual topic, not pure opinions.

(Yeah, and clive - thanks for the info, cheers! - I plan on watching the film again soon and adding more here eventually.)

[–] ilssaridor 19 years ago

Good point: "he really doesn't wan to support her..." Indeed, like all good Republicans, he just wants to f@#k her... That's what Republicans do.

But your point is valid: Mo works "within the system." Jill is am "outsider," whom Mo resents because she is allowed to exist without adheering to his/their views of how society works.

Ultimately, he brings about the destruction of his world through violent, military means... just like Republicans

[–] motorhead_at 20 years ago

POLITICS
i don't know how it was THEN, but see M.A.R.K 13 - HARDWARE through today's political eye. see what is obvious, as eraceheadd already stated. You remember all this usa-iraq-stuff. I want to make it visual to you.

compare:
http://www.solarcrusader.com/images/bush-borg.jpg

with:
http://www.solarcrusader.com/

and bear in mind that...
...i recently read an article that stated that the u.s. of a. want to use armed robots in future wars and in the iraq now... drones with a mounted army machine gun instead of a common soldier... remote controlled.

RELIGION
I don't discuss that. Too much fanatism.

Nothing more to say.

CU

R.

"You should have killed me while you could, James! Command and compassion is a fool's mixture."

[–] andrew-jones5 20 years ago

To support the guy above the comic story was from 2000 ad, a one off in a slot called Thargs future shocks, later shortanded to future shock.

Think you guys may be looking a bit deep, it a goverment bot and the yank flag looks cool painted on it.

If there are messages in this film they are clearly the simple quite clear points about a world been lead to distuction by guys into heavy industry and war. The Kill bot sort somes all that up.

i liked the film watched when i was 16 though

[–] JLovrak 20 years ago

The most obvious religious reference to me is the name MARK 13.

That chapter in Mark features Jesus' description of the Apocalypse to his disciples. There's lots of descriptions of cities in ruin and wars and rumors of wars.

Secondly, the number 13 of course should be noted.

[–] gunatmouth 20 years ago

Wasn't Lincon (sp?) the first American president? The character in Hardware is a pervert slimball. That name correlation plus the flag on the robots head could xombine to give a anti America message.

[–] Trioxin_235 19 years ago

An obvious reference, but more by accident than design, IMO. As far as I am aware, the reason for the name MARK13 is a reference to Mark Pauline of the SRL (Survival Research Laboratories), footage of which is playing on the TV as Jill is working on her sculpture.

While I may be wrong, I get the impression the bible reference was really just chosen for the 'no flesh shall be spared' quote - and probably just 'cause it sounds cool, rather than for any deeper meaning.

Trixo235
I'm not even supposed to be here today

[–] moivel 19 years ago

I've watched this movie many, many times (allthough not for some 3 years now) and I never felt there was a religious message (at least not in the sense that it referred to any specific religion). Rather a man vs. machine or logic vs. emoition theme.
Mostly I would consider this movie a criticism against the tendency for the state and society to be above and in control of the population, rather than the state existing for the sole purpose of the society which is aware that it is comprised of the population.
If nothing else then the whole mass-sterilization program which is hinted at through the newscasts seems to me very not extremist-christian.

One thing that does interest and still confuse me is when Moses is poisoned by the mark 13 and starts hallucinating, seeings visions of hindu deities _and_ fractal art. Could this be a hint that maybe, just maybe, on the outer limits of existence, near death, it becomes all too clear that logic and emotion, technology and naturality and, ultimately, man and machine are all in harmony and that the problem lies beyond the conflicts between these camps.
Maybe the lesson to be learned through this film is to look beyond the ravager and the ravaged, the deserter and the deserted and start to ask ourselves who put us all where we are, what the government is doing to us and not for us.

Also, they mention that the two men who came up with the mass-sterilization-campaign had died, reportedly in a suicide-pact. Any thoughts on why this would be? Hushed-down execution? The realization that what they did was too horrible to be? A sense of mission accomplished?

Lastly, I promise, lastly. Isn't it sort of cool how the super-high-tech killing machine relies solely on melee/shortrange weapons?

[–] shub789 19 years ago

I can't BELIEVE no-one else pointed this out - but when Jill goes to open the door and Moe's there with the gun and she has to duck while he shoots the robot behind her, what does the robot do? It's standing there, on fire, arms outstretched..
I watched this two days ago and noticed that for the first time. I thought, "It looks like Jesus on the cross!" And I know Richard Stanley is a chap who puts a lot of thought and symbolism into his visuals, so it probably wasn't an accident. I wondered for the rest of the movie, what's Jesus got to do with all this? But it sure goes with your theory, don't it?

[–] eraceheadd 19 years ago

Its been awhile since I posted here – its nice to see that people still give a damn about this little movie.

Anyway – in response to the last post – the movie is laden with religious references, The MARK 13 quote, Moses as a main character, the robot in the “jesus christ” pose, Mo says he’s “divinely protected” and many others. The real reason seems to drive home the apocalyptic theme – the end of the world, the end of society... no flesh shall be spared. But I still think there is significance to the HEAVY Christian references contrasted by our two “heroes”: shades performing some ancient ceremony as he drops some acid, and the fact that Jill is a pot smoking artist (or maybe they are just hippies?). And of course, the over used, but poignant here – mother nature (water) and also a female, beating down the “machine” in the end.

But what I see just before Mo fires his weapon over Jill’s shoulder, is Jill standing with her face covered and the MARK 13 behind here in the cross position. So for a few seconds, it appears as though Jill is "on" the cross – but maybe that is looking too far into it ;) As far as it really being about jesus - i think its a reference to the crucifixion - to sacrifice, and also the destruction of idols (MOSES dies also).

I like the opinion of “Lincoln” being a possible shot at American history. I never really thought about that.

I do need to see the film again, but each time I watch it Im afraid it will explode in my vcr (my tape is from 1990). I wonder when the hell someone will actually release a damn DVD – what the hell is the problem? (and uncut as well... damnit!)

[–] sub_mish 19 years ago

I don't know about the Christian references, but the writers, Kev O'Niell and Steve McManus wrote strips like A.B.C. Warriors for 2000AD, and were obviously inspired by their own stuff. Amusingly 2000AD itsself gave HARDWARE a really bad review when it came out - probably pissed off with two of their premier writers "selling out"- but actually it's very true to the original comix with it's nihilistic, punky attitude.

The politics definitley, though - the robot is America, and the Barbie dolls in the sculpture, and then the people in the film, represent the rest of the world getting blown away.

[–] sub_mish 19 years ago

Ah- Turns out it was a ripoff of a 2000AD comic, called S.H.O.K! in which a "S.H.O.K. trooper" is salvaged and given to a man's girlfriend with predictable results. Link here.

http://www.2000adonline.com/index.php3?zone=thrill&page=thrillviewer&choice=shok
(registration required)

It ended in litigation, with the writers being credited. Bit sad really as it is a terrific film.

[–] clive-64 19 years ago

Ive been busy converting all my tapes to DVD and unfortunately "Hardware" has been one of the few that have deteriated so badly that the conversion signal goes gaga every so often. Ive read somewhere else that the manufacturers that were responsible for bringing "Hardware" to video amongst other films in the UK, had used really low quality tapes, I can confirm this, since several tapes I have were done by them and have deteriated more so than others, I think they were called "Home4", Im in work, so exscuse me if ive got the name wrong.

Ive looked at getting a DVD replacement via the internet and have found a few places in the USA that claim to have new copies of the German release. I havnt been able to find out if these copies have english or german written covers and more importantly if the sound track is in english or german.

ps I dont think the film is that good to want to learn German :-)

[–] melvinssmiley 19 years ago

I would like to point out that Mo does not succeced in saving Jill from Mark 13. In your tone of liberal\conservative oppositions of ideologies, i think director even more emphasises his negative view of conservative, repressive forces.

Mo is a soldier, part of the system, so he represents the state. Though he is trainned, familiar with technoligies, he even has mechanical arm, he brings the robotic head to Jill unaware, disregarding its possibilities. Not only he leaves her, unprotected, with it, but in the final moment, when she states her wish to live and at the same instant gets attaced by Mark and finds herself hanging on the wire, he explicitly says there is nothing he can do. To protect is one of his main tasks, and he\state fails to do so.

I think director shows essential lack of faith in system itself, in this way. Which is, of course, completely according to apocalyptical tone of the film.

It is interesting to see this as in a way foretelling 9/11 and post 9/11 responds of the governement. Its unability to prevent and ultimatly protect.

[–] Schizo_Pierce 18 years ago

I'm curious as to where the child-killing voyeur spying on Jill fits into this political analysis...

I'm not disturbing the peace, I'm disturbing the war.

[–] sub_mish 18 years ago

Child-killing??? How so?

But yes, interesting to see where he fits in. Maybe as ordinary everyday human evil, rather than the much more powerful mechanised evil of the System?