In the final scene we can see father Karras gravestone.The dates here is Born 12 April 1935,entered 30 July 1957 (his death in first movie i think) and Died 9 oct 1975.In opening scene we can see "Georgetown 1990" as time and place of the story.What happening here?Is a mistake or i miss something?
Please forgive my terrible English...
Karras died around 1971 or so according to the original novel, which was written in present time. Exorcist III jacked it up to 1975 so the date of death would match more closely the "all that McNeil stuff and Karras' death happened 15 years ago" script writing. But as far as the original novel and the original film are concerned, Karras did die in 1971 or thereabouts.
All the world thought Karras was dead ... until, according to Exorcist III ... we were shocked to hear that the vengeful demon caught Karras' soul and stuffed it back into his dead body - along with the soul of recently executed James Vennamun/the Gemini Killer.
SPOILERS FOLLOW
When Karras "dies" for a second time at the end of Exorcist III, yes, you are correct - this does happen in 1990.
However:
the whole story of a Jesuit's resuscitated corpse, inhabited by the imprisoned Jesuit himself, and the ghost of a serial killer, sometimes wandering around and killing people, at other times possessing the senile and insane and forcing them to kill, briefly talking to Kinderman until the Gemini gains ascendency and taunts Kinderman;
persuading Dr. Temple to commit suicide;
Vennamun's ghost possessing an elderly patient through whom he tries to kill Kinderman and his family;
Fr. Paul Morning, the campus chaplain somehow finding out about the tormented Karras/the Gemini/the continuing power of the vengeful demon, Morning's hospital cell exorcism, Morning's mortal or near-mortal wounding;
Vennamun/the demon torturing Kinderman in the cell, Fr. Morning reviving and working in concert with Kinderman to expel the demon and Vennamun and liberate Karras, and finally, Kinderman's shooting to death an unarmed man restrained in a straitjacket;
... All of this is just too much to be made public knowledge. Kinderman would have one hell of a time explaining his shooting "Patient X", explaining the supernatural nature of the events, the possessed "nurse" in his home, etc.
The only corroborating evidence Kinderman would have would be an autopsy of the man he shot to death - whose features and dental records would prove at least that Damien Karras did NOT die at the bottom of those steps some fifteen years previously. I would not have much trouble imagining that Morning, if he survived, Kinderman, the Georgetown president, and maybe the police brass might have engaged in a compassionate yet pragmatic coverup of the whole case. Simply too much explaining to do. And that rests on the assumption that the entire case didn't unhinge Kinderman himself. The ending scene of Karras' burial is really a scene of his first burial that should have happened in 1971 when he died and before the vengeful demon "resurrected" him. The idea is that the body of old Brother Fain - who the Gemini frightened to death by breaking open Karras' casket and crawling out - has been removed from the grave, and Damien Karras' body finally and reverently interred.
So, just as at the end of the original novel and film, at the end of Exorcist III, all the world - save for a very few hospital staff, Jesuits, and cops very close to the case - goes on thinking that Fr. Damien Karras, S.J., died in 1971/1975, with no one else the wiser.
Thanks for your response...whats your explanation about "entered date" on his grave stone?
sharei Think i get it...The "entered" date is the date who became a priest...
shareYou got it - it's the date when he officially joined the Jebs.
As long as we're chatting, can I pick your brain? Re: the movie (not the Legion novel where he doesn't appear) - do you think Fr. Morning survived his ordeal or was his last-ditch effort with the crucifix to save Damien the very last thing he did before he died? His injuries looked severe, but otoh, he did regain normal, clear consciousness and made that heroic effort. So maybe he survived. If he did survive, I can imagine he and Kinderman striking up a friendship a la Kinderman's nascent friendship with Damien and his real friendship with Fr. Dyer. Also the two of them shared the same demonic experience, which would likely have cemented their friendship...
I can imagine he and Kinderman striking up a friendship a la Kinderman's nascent friendship with Damien and his real friendship with Fr. Dyer. Also the two of them shared the same demonic experience, which would likely have cemented their friendship...I think you just described an ending of The Exorcist III that I would have preferred over the one they used.
Doom, cool idea... a sort of "there's still hope" ending for both Kinderman and Morning. Heartwarming, actually - in a typically Blattian way. As the ending stands, Kinderman has lost Fr. Dyer, has been exposed to the demonic tormenting of Damien Karras, and himself was tortured by the demon. He's lost a lot, and it would have been nice to see him get some compensation...
sharePart of me thinks it would have been cool to have used 1990 as the death date on the tombstone, as it could be argued that this is when Karras truly 'died'.
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Wait a minute... who am I here?
Maybe, but as I argued elsewhere, putting 1990 as Karras' DOD would represent a public acknowledgement, acceptance and understanding of all the utterly unbelievable circumstances that led to the burial. In fact, it would be a very dangerous key that could unlock everything that needed to be kept secret about the case.
It would revive the private horrors of Regan's original case, it would verify the supernatural reasons of how-and-why Karras did not really die on that night, of how the demon-and-Gemini-powered resuscitated Karras broke out of his cheap casket thereby frightening Brother Fain to death, being picked up incognito wandering the C&O Canal, being admitted - again incognito - into the mental ward, all the supernatural things that emanated from Karras/Patient X/Vennamun-the Gemini, the supernatural murders, the Gemini's possession of "old friends" in the hospital, Dr. Temple's suicide...and worst of all: Kinderman's killing of an unarmed mental patient restrained in a straitjacket.
Updating Karras' DOD, as I said, would be public acknowledgement of the reality of Regan's possession, public acknowledgement of the vengeful demon's return/Karras' resuscitation, supernatural murders, and for those who would still dismiss the whole thing as BS, Kinderman would be viewed as a cop who went over the edge, and who, driven by a combination of hysteria, paranoia, and superstition, murdered a mental patient. All of this is implicit in updating Karras' DOD - because doing so would be tantamount to knowing the whole story - a knowledge that by moral and pragmatic parameters should have been known only to a very few people who were very close to the case.
Yes yes yes...thats my thought too.Death date 1990.Additionally the "entered" date must be 1975 with a meaning of his funeral after his "death" on 'Exorcist".The date he entered the grave for first time
shareFrom novels i only know and read in the past "the exorcist" and i guess,because of this,i miss a lot of details about the characters and story.
In my point of view father Morning is dead.Completely dead.But i must agree with Doom.An alternative finale is possible.Im prepared for "Exorcist III The Version You've Never Seen"
Again,please forgive my
Thanks for your reply, haralam. Yes, the ending was pretty "raw". The only compensation Kinderman gets is to see that Damien Karras is finally, properly, laid to rest. Sure, he still has his family, but he's lost Damien a second time, lost Fr. Joe Dyer under hideous supernatural circumstances, nearly been killed himself, seen his family attacked... he's been returned to his status in the original story wanting a little male companionship for movies and stuff because "Mrs. K, you know, she gets tired..." Only now, his new loneliness comes after literally being put through Hell...
shareBut he came through a life-change experience for first time.In 'Exorcist' it was far away for all demonic experiences.But now,he came face to face with evil.And he found his lost faith.Its a whole new man.
shareThat's true for the Legion novel. But I was thinking chiefly of the movie, which changed lots of important material from the book. In the movie, Karras is back, and demonically tormented (in the Legion book, Karras has gone on to his heavenly reward, and only his resuscitated body is present) - and Kinderman and Morning have to work in concert to rescue Karras and expel Vennamun and the demon, a process during which Kinderman has to shoot Karras to death. The movie doesn't show Kinderman as a person of faith, so there is no possibility that he regained a faith that he never had to begin with. But the Legion book is much different - Kinderman doesn't have to kill Karras - because Karras is not in the book - and Blatty does present Kinderman as a person of faith. Naturally, I prefer Legion's much "happier" ending for Kinderman...!
sharei think there is a scene durring the exorcism that Kinderman admits the regain (or just the beggining) of his faith...
shareMaybe, but I don't remember it that way. Kinderman does make a statement of faith, but it's faith in the demon: "I believe in slime and stink and filth, infidelity and every unclean thing... I... believe... in you!" So, like Chris, Kinderman believes in the reality of the demonic. But Blatty, in the film, doesn't push Kinderman to the realization that Chris had, i.e., "But if all the evil in the world convinces you that the Devil exists, how do you account for all the good...?" In the film, Kinderman is left only with a dreadful experience of "impossible" supernatural evil, without any redeeming interpretations. That's why, in my imagination, I like to picture Fr. Morning surviving and being a spiritual advisor to the psychically wounded Kinderman.
shareI see that you have been think a lot about this movie .In my opinion, inside the Kinderman there now seeds of faith.That is enough to cause change with or without guidance.The contact with evil is enough for starting the search for God.
Complementary, I firmly believe that a movie is not the appropriate way to express precisely and with all the necessary shades complex theological issues such as the faith and finding faith by a formerly atheist.
I agree that most movies can't handle faith issues with great subtlety. That's why I wish that Exorcist III would have had a brief epilogue where Morning survives and becomes a kind of spiritual mentor for Kinderman. It already has an epilogue with Kinderman at Damien's grave. If the scene had included Morning at Kinderman's side - maybe in an arm cast and facial bandages - and ended with them walking off together - that would make me happier. Or even have Morning be confined to a wheelchair and have Kinderman pushing Morning away in the chair, thus still sort of "walking" off together...this would have given a glimmer of hope for Kinderman's faith-future.
The contact with evil is enough for starting the search for God.
And I hope that this happened with the luckless Detective Kinderman...!
Sorry, I can't recall if you have read the novel Legion. If not, I think you would like the book's portrayal of Kinderman - a man who has doubts, but who also is very much a person of faith, and whose faith ironically gets a boost from his involvement with the Gemini case.
:)
No i have not read Legion.The only book of Blatty translated into Greek is The Exorcist. And I read it. As you can see my english is in a bad level. It will be difficult to read a book i English.
sharePlease don't worry about your English skills - you write well and you get your message across. Sorry to hear that Legion has not been translated into Greek! Hopefully, that will happen in the future - I think you'd like the story.
shareI hope so. I would like to read all the books in the series. The Exorcist was very interesting book. Can I share a thought ? I thought you said that the father Morning does not exist in books.Tote, it is simply a bad attempt to create a character analogue of father Merrin. Moreover,an Exorcist movie without exorcist cant be done.
shareRight - there is no Morning and no exorcism in Legion. But actually, I have to disagree that it's just a poor try to make a character analogue of Merrin - on the contrary, I find it a very effective, respectful nod to Merrin. In Legion and Exorcist III, Karras understandably gets all the attention, with only a little of it directed to other Exorcist characters such as Dyer, Canavan, and the university president. Blatty was forced to create an exorcist, and in consideration, and in light of, the previous reasons, I feel that he did a fine job.
Note that in the Friedkin film's Iraq prologue, Merrin has very few lines (except with the innkeeper and the museum curator).
Same thing with Morning: when Blatty introduces us to the character, he does it silently and poetically, first shooting around Morning's room and briefly showing objects that immediately suggest simplicity and sanctity - as well as a miniature display of the angel defeating the demonic - which of course will explain Morning as this film's exorcist;
we are shown a wounded bird - in a box on the window sill - that Morning is caring for - a sign of the aging priest's gentleness and compassion;
then the bird dies suddenly, and the camera follows Morning from behind as he approaches the window sill, just as Friedkin's camera followed Merrin from behind when he approaches the one-eyed blacksmith;
and while this short walk is transpiring, Blatty shows us a placard on Morning's wall that reads: "What we give to the poor/Is what we take with us when we die" - another resonance with earlier material, specifically, the words on Karras' wallet holy card;
then the weather outside and the lighting in the room darken: Morning's crucifix falls off the wall "by itself", and on examination, Morning finds that the corpus is bleeding - two signs of the nearness of the diabolical paranormal;
finally the darkened room is swept, even wracked, by the "demon wind" that we know so well from the end of Friedkin's Iraq prologue, and we are shown Morning's significant reaction to these events.
Thus, considering that the studio forced Blatty to create a brand new character for the studio-demanded exorcism, in my judgment he did a wonderful job - an example of his grace under studio pressure, and an artistic triumph in creating an authentic-feeling resonance with the entire Exorcist mythos.
[P.S. - sorry for this belated reply - unfortunately I missed your own post!]