I was just wondering what viewers think would happen to Kinderman after the credits roll. Basically, he marches into the hospital and kills a patient execution style. As the film unfolds, we see why Kinderman is convinced that Father Karras is possessed by the Gemini killer. Aside from knowing so many details of the original killings, he actually possesses a catatonic patient and launches an attack on Kinderman's family, trying to kill his daughter Julie. His family and the officer who accompanied him witnessed the attack and may even have heard the Gemini's voice coming from the lips of the woman dressed as a nurse. But, Kinderman never records any of the dialogue from the cell that could help corroborate his story. The only real proof he has is that Damien Karras was not found in the coffin after it was exhumed. Instead, the body of Brother Fein (sp?) was in the coffin, who happened to be the last person to see Karras's body before burial. He had apparently died of a heart attack caused by fright when Karras crawled from the coffin, and everyone assumed he had simply left to go home.
What would happen to Kinderman? Would he be arrested and tried for murder? Would he be found to be mentally unstable? Is there enough proof to truly convince a court that he had good reason to kill the patient in the cell?
In the theatrical cut, I can believe that Kinderman would walk free, as the body of Father Morning (who may be alive still or who may have died) proves that something incredible went down inside of the cell. Nothing there would hint at Kinderman attacking Father Morning. I think Father Morning would certainly be proof enough, in addition to other factors, to allow Kinderman to go free. In the Director's Cut, I think Kinderman's career would be over.
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So in the director's cut, Kinderman still kills Karras (the Legion novel had it ending without violence)...?
The only real proof he has is that Damien Karras was not found in the coffin after it was exhumed
He has proof that Patient X was really Damien Karras all these 15 or so years (only his body in the novel, his body-plus-his own soul in the Morgan Creek version).
This would be proven in the autopsy that would be demanded in the wake of Kinderman shooting a helpless man in a straitjacket. Those who remembered Karras would be called in for identification, "those tedious dental records" would almost surely be found, blood testing if not DNA testing could be performed, anything that the hospital staff recalled of what Patient X said or did would corroborate Kinderman's special knowledge of the Gemini case, as would the testimony of the Vennamun-assaulted Kinderman family - as well as corroborate the seemingly incredible fact that the serial killer had taken over Karras' resuscitated corpse ... and there are all those tedious fingerprints from the patients that Vennamun had possessed, thereby supporting the mass possession theory, plus - if Temple sometimes let Vennamun out, there would also be Vennamun-KARRAS'S OWN fingerprints that would point straight to the man in Cell Eleven, i.e., to the living corpse (now the dead corpse) of Damien Karras. And finally, Kinderman's own impeccable record would speak volumes for his integrity.
These factors, taken together, would probably exonerate Kinderman, There would be a coverup in the hospital, by the police and the media. If you saw the original Kolchak: the Night Stalker pilot, you know what I mean. In this case, the county's vampire turned out to be the reanimated corpse of Damien Karras, and his sinister posthumous legend would be put down as quickly as that of Janos Skorzeny.
Don't want to be a pest, but wanted to check this out. You wrote, he marches into the hospital and kills a patient execution style. As the film unfolds, we see why Kinderman is convinced that Father Karras is possessed by the Gemini killer
SPOILERS MAY FOLLOW
So this scene in the director's cut is basically the same as in the Morgan Creek version? Kinderman shoots Patient X in Cell Eleven?
As mentioned, my prior reply hinges on the two films being essentially the same on this point. In the original Legion novel, there is no exorcism, and the Gemini simply dies when he finds out that his abusive father has died - no need to shoot Patient X. But, so, in the director's cut, the non-violent "weaker" ending is not present, but the violent shooting climax is shown? If so, I wonder why Blatty chose gunfire over the Gemini simply giving up - maybe simply for the sake of a "stronger" drama?
As the film unfolds, we see why Kinderman is convinced that Father Karras is possessed by the Gemini killer.
Important point I don't want to miss. If I understand correctly, since the director's cut does not feature the personality of Karras, but only his resuscitated corpse inhabited by the Gemini, then it is doubtful that the director's cut would say or imply that Kinderman thinks that KARRAS HIMSELF is present - and possessed - by the Gemini. If the director's cut conforms to the original Legion story, there is no possession of Karras, but merely the reanimation of his corpse by the Gemini and "Pazuzu". As Merrin said before, "There is only one" - the Gemini, and nobody gets possessed, except for the "old friends" that the Gemini himself temporarily possesses.
Karras is present in the director's cut. He is what stops the Gemini from continuing the attack in the Kinderman household. Kinderman senses Karras. Remember, in the theatrical version, the arrival of Father Morning in the cell is what stops the attack. Also, the scene of Kinderman nearing the patient in the cell and calling him Karras is still in the director's cut, where Brad Dourif suddenly comes back to life and screams NOOOOOOOO!
The ending is this...Kinderman enters the violent ward's hallway as we see the old catatonic lady in the bed being wheeled back to her hospital room. The nurse is there and says she doesn't know if he is awake, and Kinderman replies that he knows he will be awake, and he tells her to lock the door behind him. He walks into the cell, faces the patient, says "pray for me, Damien", then shoots him twice in the chest. Then, he walks over and puts the gun to his temple, firing...cut to the sun with the bird flying...end credits.
Unless I missed something, I see nothing at all in any of the new release supplemental materials (I have watched every bit of it) that hint that the book's ending was filmed. The Gemini's father is mentioned midway through the film, but this is never made into a plot point beyond just some brief exposition about how he operated. The director's cut was never going to be a strict adaptation of the book to begin with. I think these changes to the story were already made when they shot the film. Perhaps Blatty himself felt that the books ending was too weak for a movie and beefed it up a bit at the script-writing stage?
plus - if Temple sometimes let Vennamun out, there would also be Vennamun-KARRAS'S OWN fingerprints that would point straight to the man in Cell Eleven, i.e., to the living corpse (now the dead corpse) of Damien Karras
Do you think that Temple ever let him out of the cell? If memory serves, he was only in the violent ward for two weeks prior to the events of the film, once he had gained enough control over the regenerated body (It took fifteen years!!). I don't get the feeling that Temple ever let him out, personally. I think the Gemini was doing all of his dirty work through the possession of the older patients. I think Temple made the mistake of engaging him in conversation at some point and found himself believing that this was the Gemini, probably having been spoken to through other bodies like when the old lady dressed as a nurse spoke to Kinderman in his home. That is why Temple was so scared of the Gemini. Just my own thoughts on the matter.
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Thanks for all the details and clarifications. The ending with Kinderman putting the gun to his own head is very realistic, shocking...and tragic... Yeah, like you said, maybe Blatty beefed up the ending because the book's was too anticlimactic.
So...what feelings did Kinderman's self-execution bring up for you? Seems like an incredible downer and though I can see why Blatty opted for it, still, we have gotten to know Kinderman and his family, and his loss is a heavy one. Did you find any hint of resonance between Kinderman's "self-sacrifice" (if such it was), and Karras' in the first story? Or did Kinderman kill himself because he feared that the Gemini/the demon would leap into him...? Or was it simply Kinderman realizing that his life was essentially over because he had just killed a helpless man restrained in a straitjacket...?
Fascinating, too, that Karras AS Karras is present (only played by Dourif) in the director's cut... intriguing stuff.
I am sorry, you misunderstood me. Kinderman puts the gun to the Gemini's temple and kills him, or at least makes sure he is dead. He does not kill himself. I apologize for not being more clear on that. It is basically like the scene at the end of the theatrical cut, though the Karras never speaks after being shot in the chest twice.
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