MovieChat Forums > Troop Beverly Hills (1989) Discussion > Problem with the ending

Problem with the ending

posted 11 years ago by magicslippything
26 replies | jump to latest

Ok, I understand that the Red Feathers didn't win because "the entire team" needs to cross in order for that team to win and they left Velda behind. But Velda appears to cross the finish line before at least one member of TBH when they pull her across the finish line. When they are dragging her, there are several people behind her. When they cut to the scene immediately after they cross the finish line, there is one person who is definitely behind the group. Unless she moved to that position in the one second it took from when they crossed the finish line to when they showed that shot, Velda technically crossed before she did. So, why wouldn't the Red Feathers be declared the winner at that point? By that time, their entire team had crossed before the entire TBH team. And I don't buy the argument that the Red Feathers had been disqualified, or that the team needs to all cross at once. Those arguments make no sense. The only rule we're given at that point is that the first ENTIRE team that crosses wins. Nothing about "all crossing together" or anything like that.

I get that the movie needed a happy ending and screw the Red Feathers and all that, but in a world where they can make up whatever rules they want, why not make up a rule that doesn't create controversy when you actually examine how it was applied? And I know, I shouldn't waste my time looking for logic in a movie from the guy who did Revenge of the Nerds, but this kind of stuff bothers me. Any thoughts? Or is my vision terrible?

[–] star168 11 years ago

When Velda crossed the finish line, she wasn't "with" her troop. It didn't matter that her troop had crossed ahead of her. The Entire troop + leader has to cross together at the same time. Besides, Velda should've known the rules and not let her troop abandon her.

What didn't make sense to me was the 'tie a rock to the loose end of the bridge and toss it across the ravine' plan. Really???? I want to see that work!!! To find a rock large enough to carry the heavy bridge over the ravine means it's too big for the girls to throw!

[–] magicslippything 10 years ago

When Velda crossed the finish line, she wasn't "with" her troop. It didn't matter that her troop had crossed ahead of her. The Entire troop + leader has to cross together at the same time. Besides, Velda should've known the rules and not let her troop abandon her.

Sorry, I just saw your edited post. First, unless I missed something, they don't even bring up that rule until the very end after the Red Feathers finish (and I'm not about to sit through the entire film again to find out). Second, the ENTIRE troop DID cross once Velda crossed. Why would they need to cross at the same time? They don't ever say that, so you're just assuming there, and what qualifies as "the same time"? Within 3 seconds? Within 10 seconds? It's very vague. According to what they ACTUALLY state, and again, apologies if they mention it before the the 80 minute mark, "The rules specifically state that the trophy goes to the first entire troop to cross the finish line. No leader, no trophy". Ok, fine, don't give them the trophy at that point. But when TBH crosses WITH Velda, the entire Red Feathers troop has crossed. Velda crosses before the people at the back of the pack for TBH. Therefore, the entire Red Feathers team crossed before the entire TBH team. Therefore, the Red Feathers should win going by the only rules that were stated in the film. Sure you can make up your own rules and assumptions and then TBH would be the winners. But according to what is SPECIFICALLY STATED in the film, the Red Feathers would be the winners. As I said before, it's a movie. I know I shouldn't look for logic in it. But I'm just playing by the rules that they put forth. That's their fault, not mine.

[–] Coconut_Kaasa 10 years ago

It comes down to being an argument of semantics.

Velda gave up on her Troop and they gave up on her, by that point it was upheld in controversy. Your own argument could be turned against you by me saying that since Beverly Hills came in together as a group in the same matter of seconds, that gave them the win. Of course, since Velda was abandoned by her own girls, it didn't matter. Troop Beverly Hills wins by default.

Cane Dewey

[–] magicslippything 10 years ago

I think you're kind of missing my point. It's obviously all conjecture, so we're only allowed to know as much as the movie tells us. And at no point do they tell us that the rule is "the ENTIRE troop needs to cross" until the Red Feathers have already crossed. Again, I may have missed something, and I'm not watching it again. If they mentioned that earlier, please let me know.

Assuming they didn't, I'm still going by their rules. At the moment Velda crossed, the ENTIRE Red Feathers had crossed. Game over. Red Feathers win. But the movie wants to make up its own rules at it goes along. It springs the whole "entire team" surprise on us after the fact. And then it decides it doesn't even want to follow that rule when it's all said and done. Again, if they wanted it to work out, all they needed to do before the race started was a simple line like, "Now remember, the first ENTIRE team to cross the finish line at the same time wins". Simple. They don't do that so that they can have a surprise, "Aw... TBH lost. WAIT!!! They didn't. There's still hope!" moment.

So as much as people want to defend that ending, they simply have no ground to stand on. It's all guesswork. You assume, based on the fact that it ended the way it did, that the rule must have been that they all needed to cross at once. Well, I don't assume that. I think that would be a stupid rule, and therefore don't believe that it is a rule. The movie takes place in the real world. They don't need to explain to us that characters need to breathe but they do need to explain the rules of a contest that serves as the finale of the movie. They don't do it. That's their fault, not mine.

Look, I know movies like this need a happy ending and you need a way to screw the bad guys, like in the end of the first Harry Potter movie, when Dumbledore heaps loads of free points onto Harry's house in order to give them the win. That pissed me off too, and that at least had the decency to be a better movie. Obviously, people like TBH, and that's fine. I don't, and this ending is the main reason why. If I misinterpreted it, fine, I'm happy to reevaluate. But someone's gotta give me more than, "It MUST be the rule because that's the way the movie ended.

[–] Coconut_Kaasa 10 years ago

You're missing the point of the story being told, not the race itself. The Red Feathers never mattered in the movie. The story was between TBH and Velda. The race itself does not matter. As the story goes, Velda gets injured and they leave her behind. The Red Feathers seemingly won but they were missing their leader, and revealed that they didn't know where she was; so as the story goes, the race was still on or may have even ended by that point. Troop Beverly Hills proved themselves but they didn't need the race to do it, it was just to tie things together for some sort of a finale. They rescue Velda, cross the finish line, win the race, the end. Throwing in the word "entire" would be forced and ultimately doesn't matter.

I'm not trying to defend the ending itself because it was lazy and almost pointless. I thought the whole movie was pretty good, yet really mediocre. Anyway, I'm not watching this again either. At least I'm not planning on it. This is probably the point where I stop. Peace

Run to the bedroom,
In the suitcase on the left
You'll find my favorite axe

[–] magicslippything 10 years ago

I'm not trying to defend the ending itself because it was lazy and almost pointless.

I'm glad we agree on that, and that was really my whole point. I was not looking into some greater message or anything like that. All I was ever saying was that the ending they came up was lousy and it didn't make any sense to me. I don't have any problems with the ultimate "outcome" (TBH wins, Red Feathers are bitches, Velda is humiliated), but they could have solved their issues with one simple added line of dialogue. Had they done that, the movie would still have been lousy (in my opinion), but at least I wouldn't have to waste my time complaining about how the ending made no sense if you actually paid attention to it.

We also agree that there's no need to watch this thing again, either. I'll watch The Money Pit instead if I want a good Shelley Long movie.

[–] Coconut_Kaasa 10 years ago

And I'll stick with The Brady Bunch Movie, Freaky Friday, and Susie Q. 😉

Run to the bedroom,
In the suitcase on the left
You'll find my favorite axe

[–] magicslippything 10 years ago

Good call on The Brady Bunch. Underrated and a good time.

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] magicslippything 10 years ago

I'm not too proud to admit I actually owned the soundtrack to that one at one point. Probably because I'm a big Monkees fan. Fun anecdote: I actually was an extra on Overnight Delivery and spoke, briefly, to Christine Taylor. I told her I enjoyed her in The Brady Bunch. Good times.

[–] Coconut_Kaasa 10 years ago

What's wrong with that? They had a nice collection of good unknown Grunge music. I used to want to own it for years, from around 2006/'07 until a year or two ago when someone uploaded the music on Youtube.

So you worked on Overnight Delivery!? Did you make it in the final cut? How did you get the work, and what else do you remember from being on set? Was Christine as beautiful in person?

Run to the bedroom,
In the suitcase on the left
You'll find my favorite axe

[–] magicslippything 10 years ago

When you own more than 20 death metal CDs, owning that soundtrack might be considered dubious. I think I sold it a while back when I was moving a lot and needed to purge my collection. I'll always have the memories.

Yes, as an extra. I'm only in two scenes and honestly, you can't tell it's me even if you know what I looked like because I'm off in the distance. It's towards the end when Paul Rudd finally talks to Christine in person. They cut my two "big scenes". One by Christine and one while Paul is trying to get off the elevator.

My brother was an extra on Jingle All the Way, so they called him for this and told him to bring anyone "college age", which worked out since I was in college at the time.

It was three VERY LONG days. The pay was good, the food was lousy, and I spent the better part of the time hanging out in a hotel room, watching TV (they were filming at a hotel in St. Paul, MN and the top few floors were being renovated. A few of us snuck off and hid in a room. There's a lot of standing around waiting, and it's REALLY boring).

I spoke to Larry Drake, too. I told him I liked his shoes and that Dr. Giggles ruled. He's very nice. Yes, Christine was beautiful and very nice. She asked me what time it was. I got to stand a few feet away from her for like a half hour. It was pretty awesome (but they didn't use that one in the final cut).

The only other fun moment was when I overheard two production staff discussing Reese Witherspoon. The word "bitch" was used more than once. Not very popular on the set, I guess. She wasn't there on the days we filmed, though, so I don't have any first hand experience.

[–] Simplythebest11962 9 years ago

so, are you an actor now?

Dream until your dreams come true.

[–] magicslippything 9 years ago

No, I'm not. Those three days were the extent of my movie career, unless you count starring in my friend's student film a year later. I played a "meat walker". Like, I was walking a piece of meat like you'd walk a dog. In the end, I tied a rock to it and threw it off a bridge.

My payment for that gig? Lunch at a local deli and a ticket for the movie Gummo. I think I got screwed. :)

[–] Simplythebest11962 9 years ago

by magicslippything » 11 hours ago (Tue Mar 15 2016 13:11:14)
IMDb member since July 2009
No, I'm not. Those three days were the extent of my movie career, unless you count starring in my friend's student film a year later. I played a "meat walker". Like, I was walking a piece of meat like you'd walk a dog. In the end, I tied a rock to it and threw it off a bridge.

My payment for that gig? Lunch at a local deli and a ticket for the movie Gummo. I think I got screwed. :)



Dream until your dreams come true.

[–] shredder08 10 years ago

The Red Feathers weren't going to be rewarded with a win when they abandoned their troop leader in the wilderness and another team had to drag her to the finish. Are you serious?

[–] magicslippything 9 years ago

As serious as I can be arguing over a movie that is not in any way intended for my demographic, I suppose.

I get what you're going for ("can't reward the bad guys"), but in reality, you CAN reward the bad guys. Unless there's a rule stating that leaving someone in the woods disqualifies them, there's no reason they couldn't have won. Sometimes, bad guys win. It's a fact of life. I get that it would be a downer, but look at the original Bad News Bears. The Bears lost and no moped. Because sometimes the underdogs don't win.

And I've yet to see anyone point out anything factual indicating why the Red Feathers didn't win. Lots of conjecture, but nothing factual.

[–] shaun1979 10 years ago

Disqualified means they are removed from the competition. So when TBH crosses the finish line it doesn't matter that they are carrying the remaining member of the Red Feathers, because the Red Feathers have already been disqualified.

It's possible that there is some fine print rule in the Wilderness Girl guidebook that the entire group must cross the finish line within a set amount of time as each other. However that information would have just bogged down and unnecessarily complicated the story at its most dramatic moment. Every film requires the willing suspicion of disbelief so when the character who runs the Wilderness Girls says the Red Feathers are disqualified we should be comfortable assuming she has the good reason and authority to make that call.

What's more the Red Feathers probably would've been disqualified for stealing the trophy anyway.

[–] magicslippything 10 years ago

Obviously, there was some rule that disqualifies the Red Feathers because they didn't all cross together. I trust the head of the Wilderness Girls to know the rule book.

But we, the audience, don't know the rules. So it just comes across as really bad screenwriting to pull a "gotcha" on the audience. All it would have taken was one line of exposition before the race. "Remember, the first ENTIRE team to cross the finish line together wins". That would have solved the entire problem. But they didn't, so I'm playing by their rules. They made no mention of it, and when they did, the RF still met the guidelines laid down.

They can't keep making up rules as the go. Well, they can, because it's their movie, but I can complain about how it makes no sense and is stupid. Stuff like this wrecks movies and it only serves to teach us that good guys will prevail because someone will come along to screw the bad guys even though they won fair and square(see the end of the first Harry Potter movie for another example of that. That was a travesty of justice).

I'm quite all right with suspending my disbelief. But this doesn't require that. This requires something from the film that it didn't give us. That's their fault, not mine. And unless someone can point to a part in the movie where they explain that the RF would lose BEFORE they actually lost, I'm not going to be convinced.

It's a movie, and I know I'm obsessing about it too much. But it just bothers me when movies try to pull this stuff.

[–] Owlnut73 9 years ago

The leader said entire troop together including leader. That is what it meant. The red feathers might have crosses first, but they did so without their leader. That is why they were disqualified. It makes sense and is fair.

[–] magicslippything 9 years ago

Unless I missed something, she said that after the RF had already crossed the finish line. That's not the time to explain the rules to everyone. That rule should be something that's explained before the race starts.

Also, the exact line is "The rules specifically state that the trophy goes to the first ENTIRE troop to cross the finish line". Nowhere does she say they need to cross together. Why are they disqualified? If Velda crosses 30 seconds later, are they still disqualified? The movie doesn't bother to explain any of this, which is why I have a problem with it. It's lousy screenwriting. The movie just expects us to not pay attention because the bad guys lose and TBH wins. When your desired audience is 13 year old girls, things like this are probably not an issue. But it bugs me and it doesn't make sense when you actually look at it. The movie just makes up rules as it goes along, and I don't care for that. And strangely, I haven't found one person who agrees with me. Everyone's fond of stating just what you said, except, again, it doesn't make sense.

The movie creates the rules. The movie doesn't say anything at all about crossing at the same time. Only that the ENTIRE team must cross. And ALL of the RF crossed before ALL of the members of TBH. The arguement of "well, the RF were not declared the winners must mean there's a rule about crossing at the same time" doesn't make sense. It's a movie. The audience only knows as much as the movie allows us to know. And here, the movie cheats and I don't like it.

[–] Owlnut73 9 years ago

Audra Lindley's character, I think said the fiest ENTIRE troop to cross the finishline. That implys that it meens plus the leader.

[–] magicslippything 9 years ago

You'll have to let me know when. I rewatched the end part on DailyMotion and it doesn't come up until AFTER the Red Feathers already finished. If she mentions it before then, then I missed it. I can't find the full movie anywhere streaming (for free, anyway).

It would be odd, since no one has brought that up before. But if she does, apologies. But if you're only counting the time she mentions it at the trophy presentation, that doesn't count, since that's the one I'm complaining about.

[–] Owlnut73 9 years ago

It's been awhile since I seen this movie. I'll have to rewatch it to find out myself. You could be right.

[–] webbrl-177-543920 9 years ago

I'm with magicslippything. The litter was so clearly designed to allow the entire troop to cross BEFORE Velda, why the heck not make sure they did?

[–] gluserty 8 years ago

Velda didn't cross with her troop and the Red Feathers didn't cross with their leader, which is what procedure was, so they didn't win. It made sense to me.