MovieChat Forums > Sea of Love (1989) Discussion > Plot Hole? (Spoilers)

Plot Hole? (Spoilers)

posted 15 years ago by dcavalli
24 replies | jump to latest

Helen (Ellen Barkin) turns out to be innocent. She's unaware that three men she met through personal ads have been murdered.

But in New York City with the tabloids, the TV stations, New York Magazine, and "Current Affair" (at the time), the murders of the three men (middle class to affluent) would have gotten attention. After the second one, they might have suspected a serial killer. Believe me, as a New Yorker, the police can't and don't keep actual murders secret. They withhold details from the press, but not the major facts such as the victims' names, and how they died.

It would have been impossible in such a climate for her not have heard of them. First one could have been coincidence. But after the second, she might have gone to the police as said, "I think my crazy ex-husband..."

Of course, in the film, the media coverage of the murders, if any, isn't even mentioned or alluded to.

I just think it's unrealistic. (Yes, it's only a movie.)

Beyond that, I think "Sea of Love" is a decent film. Not a classic, but worth watching if it's on cable.

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] dcavalli 15 years ago

The media announces the name of the first murder victim. Helen may think it's a coincidence.

The media announces the name of the second murder victim. Helen thinks, "Uh-oh. What are the odds that people I met through the personals have been murdered in their apartments?"

Her divorce from the cable installer (who may have been violent with her) probably wasn't amiable. She's had no contact with him since then. She has sole custody.

I think she'd might suspect him and go to the police.

Of course, if she doesn't watch the news or doesn't remember the names of the personal she dated and may have slept with, that's something else.

Living in New York, I just don't think the media would ignore these murders, and there is no way for the police to keep their names out of the media for too long.

Again, it's a decent film and worth catching on cable.

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] dcavalli 15 years ago

Her ex works for a cable company either as an installer or repairman. (I guess they can do both.) He told Frank he was doing a job in the building where the first victim lived and spotted the suspicious-looking delivery boy (which turned out to be an early red herring).

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] dcavalli 15 years ago

It's been shown a lot of the Encore/Starz channels recently.

Here's a crude transcription of the script, http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/s/sea-of-love-script-transcript.html

Type in cable in the find on page feature of your browser.

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] filmklassik 14 years ago

You're absolutely right, dc. Unless Helen was retarded (and she wasn't), she'd have connected herself to the "lonely hearts" murders immediately after the second one took place, and it's kind of unbelievable that she didn't.

Also, the whole contrivance of "This chick likes rhyming ads, right?" is insane. I mean truly, bug-nuts insane. I can imagine a girl being attracted to witty replies, or even poetic ones, but the fact that she only answered RHYMING ADS? Give me a break.

Of course, the filmmakers had to contrive SOME WAY for Frank and Sherman to be positive (or nearly positive) that their Personals Ad would attract a response by the "doer", so they settled on rhyming ads.

But those two quibbles notwithstanding, this is still one of my favorite movies of all time, and one I watch maybe 2 or 3 times a year and never get tired of. I will love this SEA forever.

[–] 14 years ago

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[–] Renaldo Matlin 14 years ago

One murder took place in Manhattan, another in Queens, and considering that even in this day and age (year 2011) I know a couple of people who never watch tv and aren't even on Facebook (the horror!), I wouldn't be totally shocked that this working single mom didn't read many newspapers or watched late night tv shows like A Current Affair. She claimed to have no contact with the victims after their meetings and New York City in 1989 had what? Eight million citizens? I'm not convinced that even in 1989, every time they had a couple of murders in different regions of the city, the press immediately linked them together and turned it into some "Lonely Hearts Killer Strikes Again!"-thing.

[–] filmklassik 14 years ago

"I'm not convinced that even in 1989, every time they had a couple of murders in different regions of the city, the press immediately linked them together and turned it into some "Lonely Hearts Killer Strikes Again!"-thing."

I'm not sure I agree. Once Goodman & Pacino compared notes and linked the two shootings that took place in their respective boroughs, they knew immediately it was the work of one killer. Hence, a serial killer.

And whenever New York City has a serial killer, the tabloids go NUTS. They invariably run story after story about the case (often on Page 1) complete with orderly rows of pictures of the killer's victims, along with their names.

So it's pretty unlikely Barkin wouldn't have heard about the deaths of ALL of the guys she dated. Her not hearing about even ONE of them, though? Damn near impossible.

But like I said, this fact in no way diminishes my enjoyment of the film. In fact, SEA OF LOVE is in my all-time top 25. I adore the movie.

"MISS WRONG WE GOT HER!"

[–] filmklassik 14 years ago

Wait, you know what? You may be right, Renaldo.

Pacino and Goodman made sure that the relationship between the victims was kept OUT of the newspapers, didn't they?

In other words, the papers weren't crowing about a "Lonely Hearts" murderer after all, so it's not inconceivable that Barkin WOULDN'T have heard about the three different shootings.

Unlikely, but not inconceivable.

So, you were right, and I was wrong.

My bad...

[–] amcalabrese-1 8 years ago

One other point is that in the late 1980s the murder rate in NYC was higher than it is today. In 1989 (when the movie was released) there were 1905 murders in NYC. Murders peaked in 1990 at 2245. In 2016, there were 335 murders. And keep in mind that the population of the city in the 1990 census was about 7.3M people, the 2015 estimate was about 8.55M.

SO you had a lot more murders (by a factor of about 6) in a city with 1.2M fewer people. If the police kept the "lonely hearts" aspect of the crime out of the papers, then it might have slipped under the radar.

[–] jeanniemotherof3 14 years ago

No not really, Heat was so much better, even Al was incredible in Heat.

[–] filmklassik 14 years ago

HEAT was okay, but overlong, with one classic sequence (the robbery shoot-out) and a LOT of pretentious writing (the diner scene, for one thing). Overall it is a very overrated movie.

THIEF, on the other hand, from 1981 is much more exciting and by far Michael Mann's best work as a director.

And SEA OF LOVE is easily just as good.

And what do you mean by, "even Al was incredible in Heat."

Al Pacino (when he's firing on all eight) is one of our finest actors. Haven't you ever seen SERPICO? Or THE GODFATHER PARTS 1 & 2? Or DOGDAY AFTERNOON? Or SCARECROW? Or GLENGARY GLEN ROSS?

Or (yes) SEA OF LOVE?

When he's on his game, Al is unbelievable.

[–] jeanniemotherof3 14 years ago

Hi filmklassik, So in answer to the post you sent me, I agree Al Pacino is one of the best of all time, in a league of his own! Although I have to pick De Nirro to be just barely better. I love them both. I have not seen all those movies you mentioned yet but I will be sure to this weekend. I have also heard great things about Theif, and also the Insider starring Al in another Michael Mann film. I guess what I was meaning i " even Al was incredible in Heat",cause I recall talking about Sea of Love and Pacino being pretty much the only thing I liked about it, and just stating how incredible he was in Heat as well. I do have to strongly disagree that Sea of Love is even in the same league as Heat. And an awsome movie as it was can never be to long. As they say all the different scenes woven together makes the miracle movie Heat! If you take a look at the reviews and ratings you will see what most others thought as well, there is just no comparison, just to name a few things Michael Mann is a far better director, the music was wonderful in Heat,the way it's shot, the acting, and just so much more. Alot of people thought the diner scene was one of the best, and the ending scene, in cinema history. So overrated? Most would beg to differ, come on look at the actors involved other than just the two legends De Nirro, and Pacino? how can you even compare Sea of Love to Heat??? I know we are all entitled to our own opinion. Mine being Heat is a masterpiece,(and many others agree if you check out the reviews) Sea of Love is just your average movie, not bad, just written poorly, and not Directed to well, but over all, enjoyable, mainly because of our star Mr. Al Pacino! Have a great week filmklassik! great talking with you. P.S. Sorry if I over stated what others think to much, Just saying, it's far from only I that feels this way.

[–] filmklassik 14 years ago

-- about what other people think of HEAT. I can't tell you how many people I know who count HEAT as one of their favorite movies EVER. It's a flick that has actually GROWN in stature since it first came out back in 1995.

That being said, I STILL feel it is too long and too pretentious -- although it does have two or three wonderful set pieces to recommend it, as well as an amazing performance from Robert DeNiro.

While I don't agree with your favoritism of DeNiro over Pacino in general (I think they are both pretty equal, actually) I totally agree that DeNiro was better and more mesmerizing in HEAT. I don't know if this was a matter of DeNiro doing the better job of acting, or of just having the more interesting part. Probably a combination of both.

And even if I hold the minority opinion on this matter, SEA OF LOVE for me is a MUCH better movie: Leaner, faster, better-written (yep!) and much more exciting overall. It's a real favorite of mine and Al has never been better.

Finally, I am very curious to hear what you think of THIEF once you watch it. Please fill me in afterward, okay? It is a VERY intense movie -- especially the last 15 minutes!

Best,

filmklassik

[–] jeanniemotherof3 14 years ago

Hey filmklassik! Yes we will agree to disagree on the writing of the two movies, what's this website for anyway, right? I am very glad we can do it civil, (unlike alot of other posts I read on this site!) So thank you very much for your response, you have very great insight, and you seem so knowledgeable. Yes, I will definitely be letting you know what I thought of Theif when I am able to see it. I have heard nothing but great thing about it, so I am super excited. I love Michael Manns style. Some say Heat is his best work ever, but I have also read that some believe Thief is. So, will see what it is for me, obviously you can tell that Heat is my all time favorite movie ever! It is great talking with someone so classy such as yourself and look forward to next time, you have a great weekend filmklassik!

[–] filmklassik 14 years ago

You too jeanniemotherof3 -- and happy Mother's Day!

[–] DocumentaryAddict 14 years ago

I like how she kept the personal ads with the guys names/numbers circled and written in BIG black letters on her fridge. Even though she had been dating Frank for weeks and the guys were dead (so she obviously wasn't in contact with them), she still kept their names and numbers on the fridge. With her Mom and kid on the house. LOL

[–] filmklassik 14 years ago

-- it WAS highly contrived.

But I think it's a pacing issue. Often it comes down to choosing between the option that delivers the required exposition in a way that makes sense but takes up several precious minutes of screen time, and the one that makes LESS sense (like Helen keeping the "death list" posted on the fridge for Frank and the audience to see) but gets the info out quickly and cleanly so the story can keep galloping along to the finish line.

In many cases (though not always), Option 2 represents a net gain for the filmmakers and the audience.

I think such was the case with SEA OF LOVE. Although ludicrous on the surface, the big "death list on the fridge" moment doesn't interfere with one's enjoyment of the picture.

[–] Desertman84 13 years ago

It had a MANIPULATIVE PLOT.
No question about it.
But this movie was shown 22 years ago.

[–] jefgg 9 years ago

The crime rate was very high back then. Many murders were not big news. And I think police tried to keep it quiet if they suspected there was a serial killer. More than 8,000,000 people reside in New York City. And many of them do not follow the news.

[–] daveyh (634) 3 years ago

I agree, I think they were trying to downplay the serial killer suspicion (maybe so as not to tip the real killer off, not cause a panic etc), plus if the "lonely hearts killer" tagline was big news, that would have been woven in to the film - Al's boss would have been on his back to solve it as quickly as possible, they'd probably be throwing more detectives/task forces etc on to the case, Al being involved with one of the suspects would have been more well known and he'd have caught hell for it etc. The fact that we're not shown any of this suggests to me that it wasn't big news, or was kept away from the news completely.