I hate the winking fish at the end. WTF?! The most violent and bloody Bond movie in the franchise and we end with a totally lame winking eye statue breaking the fourth wall?!! I put this down to John Glen - al of his Bond films have dumb sequences seemingly for the hell of it with no thought for tone or pacing.
"Remember, you have to make it home to get paid" (The Dogs of War)
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Wow, you're that pissed off about a winking fish? My biggest complaint with this film (and be aware that I REALLY like this film) is the fact that despite his bride being killed and losing half a leg Felix Leiter is too upbeat and happy when he is on the phone with Bond. So, for me a winking fish doesn't bother me at all.
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe...
I felt that the ending to Licence to Kill was a bit to neat and tidy. They should've had Bond have to go back to London and answer to his actions (a la Kirk and crew at the end of Star Trek IV) I find it a bit hard to shallow that after all of the trouble that Bond gave M, who warned him not to pursue his personal vendetta against Sanchez (and even had no qualms at having M's people shoot Bond when he escaped), that M would forgive and forget at the end.
shareI guess Leiter is a resilient guy, huh? Anyway, I think I will flag this thread as prima facie evidence that Bond films are sliced, diced, folded, spindled and mutilated like no other. Bond is able to escape several people firing rounds at him with automatic rifles, water ski to the skids of a seaplane, grab on to said skids, survive several acrobatic maneuvers by the pilot, enter the plane, dispatch one of the bad guys, use a bale of cash to stop a bullet, subdue the pilot, then return the boat where, presumably, more bad guys with machine guns await and are ready to fire at a close-range aircraft, after which he dumps the pilot and flies away.
So I understand that the only logical reaction is to get bent out of shape over a throwaway scene with a winking fish. Okey dokey.
He was probably wired on some serious painkillers but the entire ending felt so upbeat it was almost like a dream sequence.
shareI don't know, I actually kind of liked the winking fish at the end. Yes, it's a bit cheesy or corny for this type of movie, but it sort of symbolized that this was pretty much end of an era (the end of the "classic, 1962-89, pre-Pierce Brosnan era") so to speak. Knowing in retrospect, that this was going to be the last Bond movie for a while, the winking fish to me, was telling the audience that this maybe the end of one chapter in the Bond saga but at the same time, it was assuring us that the Bond series will eventually return.
shareBut they didn't know then that there was going to be a hiatus in the franchise.
No, I still think it is another cheesy Glen-ism that is out of place in what was such a brutal movie.
"Remember, you have to make it home to get paid" (The Dogs of War)
Totally agree. It's completely out of place. In fact the whole soppy ending is out of place from what has gone before.
The film should have ended with Bond in bed with Bouvier with him wondering whether to go back to MI6 and face the consequences or stay retired.
OHMSS had a downbeat ending that worked well.
The winking fish looked like a leftover from Octopussy.
"Perhaps he's wondering why someone would SHOOT a man before throwing him out of a plane..."
http://whatculture.com/film/10-embarrassing-tonal-shifts-james-bond-mo vies.php/7
Although his two movie reign was overlooked at the time, we can see in Timothy Dalton’s Bond the seeds of the current, phenomenally successful iteration of the franchise. The second, and more controversial, of the films, Licence to Kill sees Bond resign from the secret service and pursue a personal vendetta against a Latin American drug lord, Sanchez. This 007 is closer to Ian Fleming’s conception, a dark anti-hero with a streak of brute cunning about him, and to this day it’s the bloodiest, sweariest Bond film. If you’re not into that, though, don’t worry. The film has a wonderful surprise waiting for you in its last minute.
For most of the film Bond has been working alongside DEA agent Pam Bouvier, but his plot against Sanchez required him to enlist the services of Lupe, the drug lord’s resentful kept woman. By the end of the film, Bond has defeated Sanchez and joins his friends at the dead man’s palatial mansion for a pool party (which is a little strange, considering the film starts at a pool party that culminates with Felix Leiter’s wife being raped and murdered by Sanchez’s henchmen).
The happy occasion is nearly marred by the love triangle between Bond, Lupe and Pam, but Bond defuses the tension by arbitrarily choosing Pam and jumping into the pool with her. Pam, conveniently remembering the playful banter they had at the end of the first act, says “Why don’t you wait until you’re asked?” Bond replies “Then why don’t you ask me?” They kiss, and some prime 80s R&B balladry kicks in on the soundtrack. But it’s not over yet! Behind Bond and Pam for this whole sequence, there’s been a massive ornamental fish, which somehow, incredibly, closes one of its eyes in a cheeky wink at you, the humble film-goer! Amazing! What a magical way to end a film that, in the course of its running time, featured a man having his heart cut out, a woman whipped with a manta ray, a man’s head exploding, another man being impaled on a forklift truck, Q in a sombrero, and a man burning to death in the middle of the Mexican desert!
If only there was a massive ornamental fish winking at us in every film! Imagine how much better it would’ve made Anti-Christ!
To be honest, I quite like the fish, but only because it’s some welcome cheese after a grim slog of a film. Actual money and time were spent on a shot that lasts seconds and looks utterly, utterly stupid. In that sense, it is classically Bondian, the sort of pointless sight gag the Roger Moore films were built on. It makes me wonder how genuine the film-makers were in their efforts to ‘grit up’ the franchise. Bond wearing a pastel suit while jumping about on some tanker trucks was a pretty naked play for the Lethal Weapon crowd, and one that didn’t work- Licence to Kill was one of the least commercially successful Bond movies, and precipitated a hiatus that went on for six years. If you look at it that way, the winking fish isn’t the embarrassing tonal shift- it’s the rest of the film that sits wrongly.
I quite liked the winking fish as I smile from when he jumps in the pool...just my opinion though, I can understand why someone wouldn't as it is a big leap from the violence.
The world is your lobster.
It's schmaltz after the most brutal Bond film in the series - the shark attack(s), the rape/murder (offscreen), heart cut out/domestic violence, decompression gore death, then Sanchez burns to death - and then we get that dopey fish wink! Just way out of synch with the film's overall tone. IMHO.
"Remember, you have to make it home to get paid" (The Dogs of War)
But the joke at the end of FYEO was also not in keeping with the rest of the film. Glen gets a lot of bashing which isn't fair. No Bond director has ever been allowed to be an auteur. Brocolli and Wilson would have had a major say in everything and approved it. It's also worth noting that the Bond films were always considered light comedy films certainly from Goldfinger onwards. This film departed from that so much that they weren't going to have a down beat ending like OHMSS one of the factors they blamed for the film not doing as well at the box office.
shareThe fact remains that under John Glen the silly jokes/musical cues increased and the series was in danger of parodying itself. I can't name a single instance in the Connery era where I winced at what I saw/heard like I have with the Moore/Glen movies. OHMSS is one of its kind although I disagree that it faired badly at the box office - according to Wikipedia it made £64.8M worldwide it it's year of release, one of the highest grossing films of 1969. Not the best performing Bond movie but not that shabby for a film that had to end on a downer to stay true to the novel.
Whether Glen or EON are to blame for the silly episodes in the Bond movies I don't know but there are clear lapses in good judgement which I am sure many fans wish could be edited out. In the case of the musical cues (and the whole instrumental score of For Your Eyes Only) rescored.
Tarzan yells, telling tigers to SIT!, hovercraft-gondolas and Maggie Thatcher impersonations, Beach Boy surfing cues and double-takes from pigeon. C'mon, try to make a case for them, that they didn't hurt the series.
"Remember, you have to make it home to get paid" (The Dogs of War)
These may have been lapses in judgement looking back and with hindsight but at the time these were family entertainment films. The idea of taking James Bond seriously in the 70's and 80's was laughable. The Bond films were ridiculed as being childish and silly from Thunderball onwards. I didn't imply that OHMSS did badly at the box office either. It cerainly didn't do anywhere near the business that the previous Connery films had done and the perception with the public and critics was that the film had flopped.
Juvenile humour was massively introduced when Tom Mankewitz was employed as the script writer. Diamonds are Forever is generally considered the worst of the Connery films. However, the film grossed nearly twice as much as OHMSS and the producers decided more humour was the way to go.
As for changing the soundtrack to FYEO that's completely daft. All Bond films are comtemporary. And for a comtemporary film in the early eighties to be seen as cool the music had to have an electronic sound to it something Barry secumbed to in 1987 with the Living Daylights.
Most people were quite happy with all the jokes in the Bond films except the fans but they only make up a small amount of the film going public.
TSWLM, MR, FYEO, and OP were hugely successful when they were released. FYEO was the 2nd most sucessful film globally in 1981and no one not even the critics had a problem with the music. Some even commented thast it was new and fresh. Octopussy was 4th globally in 1983 and was Moores was sucessful film as Bond in the US. The film makers must have been doing something right with those figures.
From AVTAK the studio for the first time started to interfere with the creative process and limiting the budget for each film. A problem that EON couldn't shrug off until 1995. Glen has always regretted the Beach Boys aspect to the ski sequence and Barry regrets using a whistle on the Barrel roll in MWTGG.
With Dalton they tried to ditch the humour. Glen does a good job of having to shift gear but alas the public didn't like Bond when he became more serious and the public started to stay away especially for LTK as parents perceived the films as far too violent to take children to.
Juvernile humour was re introduced with Brosnan and the box office took off again. it's worth remembering that the world changed significantly in the 6 years that Bond was away.
Casino Royale was the big game changer. Wilson had wanted to do this type of Bond film in 1986 but Cubby had refused insisting know one must ever change the formula of a Bond film.
It's also worth noting that Glen was one of the people who saved the Bond franchise.
From 1981 onwards the budget on the bond films no longer kept up with the budgets of other block busters. MGM/UA stipulated that if the bond films went over budget then EON would be heavily penelized. During the 80's with cinema going plummeting Glen and Co managed to make five Bonds films of which all five were in the top ten biggest selling films globally for their years and never once went over schedule or budget which was the main concern for EON. if Glen hadn't done this then it's possible that Goldeneye would never have happened.
Brocoli refused young directors to make any of his films as all the wonderkid directors of the day always went over budget. Several filmmakers almost bank rupted the studios they made fims for UA went out of business doing this and most of the over budgeted films from young directors were flops to add insult to injury.
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I can't name a single sequence in the Connery era where I winced at what I saw/heard like I have with the Moore/Glen movies