MovieChat Forums > Halloween 5: The Revenge of Michael Myers (1989) Discussion > Loomis was suppose to be killed off at t...

Loomis was suppose to be killed off at the end of this movie

posted 9 years ago by Manna-Fest
3 replies | jump to latest

After beating Michael to a pulp, he has a heart attack or a stroke (in H6 they establish it being a stroke at least in the Producer's Cut as the T-Cut removes this) and he collapses and his eyes are open. He looks like he's dead. I always suspected this and it was confirmed to be the case coming across this interview here with director Dominique Girard: http://halloweenmovies.com/various-interviews-dominique-othenin-girard/. Skim down to the bottom to the fourth last question and he explains this. Donald Pleasance apparently wanted out of the series at this point. Rather odd considering Moustapha has stated that Donald was up to do twenty-two Halloween movies if he could. Don't know if this was before making Halloween 5 or after it. Must have been after considering he would surprisingly turn up in Halloween 6. The interview is a good read and the director also explains why Michael's mask looks the way it does in the movie. It was made that way to have him appear more humanized.

But anyway, back to the Loomis thing. If you ask me, he should have been killed off and replaced with some one else in Halloween 6. While it was nice to see him pop up again one last time, let's be real. In the film's original version, the Producer's Cut, Dr. Wynn (the man in black of H5) wanted Loomis to replace him as leader of the Thorn cult; which is odd considering Loomis was a much older man and on the verge of death. Made sense if you had a much YOUNGER guy here. Then you had the death of Donald which affected the reshoots because they couldn't film any new Loomis scenes to go with the new story aspects (the whole science experimentation thing at the end) and needed to shoot around his parts. The biggest would be the office scene between Wynn and Loomis and having to have Mitch Ryan read new lines to match Loomis' dialogue from the original version which probably would have gone differently had Donald been alive. Then you have most of his scenes being cut out from the theatrical cut anyway, making it a waste of Donald to even be in the movie and barely having much to do especially in the third act.

So yeah, it was quite a mistake having Loomis in Halloween 6 and should have just been left dead at the end of this movie. It was quite odd to see he even survived since I don't know anyone who has a stroke and collapse with their eyes still open.

[–] dave626 9 years ago

It was open ended to give Pleasence the choice. He wasn't getting any younger and his health was obviously failing by the time 6 started production. Not sure if he chose or was sweet talked into it. Either way, Tommy could've easily fit into the Loomis/obsession role tracking Michael. He did it for much of the movie anyway. Maybe he didn't want 5 to be his last movie, he wanted to go out better. 6 was his last, best work since the original. You could definitely tell he was tired and knew his time was short. So in a way, I'm glad he did it for a proper send off. But yes, the movie would've been fine and only slightly different without him.

"He came home." - Dr. Sam Loomis from the original HalloweeN

[–] Manna-Fest 9 years ago

It was open ended to give Pleasence the choice.

You mean open ended by it not being flat out stated Loomis died by like Sheriff Meeker like Jimmy's fate in the second movie after he passes out and we're left in the dark about him living or dying? Perhaps, but the article makes it clear Donald wanted out and the makers decided to go with his wishes and kill him off, so I'm surprise they wouldn't state Loomis died even though he appears to be dead after he collapses.

Either way, Tommy could've easily fit into the Loomis/obsession role tracking Michael. He did it for much of the movie anyway.

There would have still needed to be some one filling in Loomis' spot though, some one who would interact with Dr. Wynn. Tommy would be in Haddonfield living across the street. There would need to be some other character at least working at Smith's Grove and traveling along with Wynn. Again, the original cut had him looking for a successor so it could not have been Tommy who would have been far too young to manage a cult even if we had him working at Smith's Grove as a starting psychiatrist.

Maybe he didn't want 5 to be his last movie, he wanted to go out better.

If you ask me, his fate in H5 was better. He had a big role and died trying to stop Michael. H6 had him in just little over a cameo and he didn't even interact with Michael at all except for an off-screen moment where he's screaming and we don't even know what is happening to him. Not much of a proper send off there.

H6 was his last, best work since the original. You could definitely tell he was tired and knew his time was short. So in a way, I'm glad he did it for a proper send off.

The best thing about Loomis being in six was him learning why Michael was the way he was and not dying remaining in the dark of it. But considering the T-Cut would remove all of this and he doesn't even know about Thorn or who gave it to Michael (since Wynn in the T-Cut doesn't state directly he gave it to him), you'd think he was best just dying off in H5. A part of me wish they had went and remade the entire movie with a new Loomis and had the it come out in 1996 if they weren't going to release the original version, than release a cut where Donald's role would be a total waste and not even a good send off for him and a disjointing of the cult elements with the newly sci-fi approach added to the T-Cut.

Sure, it may come off as disrespectful since now Donald's role is cut out completely, which is why I wish they had scrapped Loomis and replaced him with an offspring from the start. But I wouldn't have minded a redoing if it meant getting a new version where the story can be structured in a way Joe Chappelle would have wanted it to had he had the longer reshoot time to make this happen and what role he would have had Loomis play in the new third act had Donald been alive that he could accomplish with a new actor/character in the spot. He wouldn't have to film around a dead actor's scenes and result in funky editing along the way, and we could have been given a better ending.

[–] ricky_may-47537 9 years ago

I've read that. Pleasence even stated in an issue of Fangoria that this film was to contain the death of his character. Girard states on the commentary that the scene was done to give Donald the option of coming back or not (he eventually did come back for H6, which while not a bad decision at all, ultimately robbed the climax of H5 of a lot of the impact it would have possessed had Loomis in fact died at the end). Personally, while I liked the inclusion of Loomis in H6, him not being in it would not have really affected the film at all, since Tommy was practically the successor in that film (though having him in it did feel like a more true "passing the torch" moment).

Either way, both films ultimately worked (even with the flaws they had).

History is written by the victor. History is full of liars.