MovieChat Forums > Black Rain (1989) Discussion > Another plot hole?

Another plot hole?

posted 16 years ago by hombremoya
9 replies | jump to latest

Now don't get me wrong... this is one of my favorite movies of all time.
I love Kurosawa's work, and even tried (in vain) to learn japanese. ;-)

BUT

In the end, Matsoumoto ONCE AGAIN defies orders from his superior. He is even suspended, yet he still helps out Nick again.
Japanese culture strongly stresses the honor of following orders, working for the collective, etc...
So wouldn't the Osaka police gladly taken Sato in custody, but still punished Matsoumoto for acting ilegally?

Yeah, I know, it's just a movie...

[–] madsic 15 years ago

not a plot hole at all
its not because their culture stresses something that everyone there is like that

[–] robzilla_73 14 years ago

nick and mas BOTH learned something from each other.Nick taught Mas that 'sometimes you have to go for it' and Mas taught Nick about Honor as evidenced when Nick gave Mas the plates at the end..

[–] wilsonpimdb 9 years ago

Exactly.

[–] im_chasing_amy_too 13 years ago

I don't consider character contradiction a plot hole. Especially when it happens towards the end of a film where its very obvious the filmmakers want the character to look like they've taken a journey and learned something.

[–] hombremoya 13 years ago

Oh, but I didn't mean Masa... I am afraid I didn't explain my point well:

I'll try again:
Masa defied orders again - even if for a better cause... ok.
BUT
the police department cannot tolerate someone continuously defying orders.
Still, he was celebrated - instead of getting seriously into trouble. In fact, my point might not even be just japanese-centered: Would you tolerate a police officer in your team that constantly defies orders, even if his disobedience is well meant?

I remember an analogy from the real world:
An israeli F-15 pilot lost half a wing and fought to regain control of his aircraft. His superior ordered him to eject. He didn't comply but managed to safely land the plane. He was demoted for disobeying a direct oder - at the same time promoted (to his old position again) for saving the aircraft.

I just think that in a quasi military environment such as a police department, discipline has to be taken seriously. And on top specially in a collective-
centered society as Japan.

my 2 cents.

Hans

PS: Still, after all this years, one of my ever favortie movies!

[–] Rhapthorne 13 years ago

Yeah, that''s actually a good point. The Chief of Police would have seriously reprimanded Mas for disobeying and 'dishonouring' the department.
I guess we just have to accept that this was made in '89 when Hollywood still had the cheesy endings (Top Gun anyone!!?), and didn't think in 20 years time we'd be more intelligent about movies and notice things like this. Back in 1989, I doubt many people in the West would have noticed. I think Japan has become much more understood thanks to their own cinema and anime (and the internet) reaching our shores which introduced us to how their culture works.
Maybe the Chief will make Mas cut his little finger off to make up for his "past deeds"!!

[–] BrianRaess_Is_FinallyGone 12 years ago

It's still not a "plot hole" since it doesn't affect the plot of the movie.

[–] Redux006 11 years ago

This, that's basically the entire plot. Nick learns honor from Masahiro, and Masahiro learns... to be a badass??... from Nick.

[–] the_bamboo_spear 8 years ago

If his supervisor punished him for bringing in Sato, he would lose face; they could just write it off as "Conklin's influence" and sweep it under the rug. Boss looks good and Mas probaby gets a promotion.

"It was Shnoke. He shedushed our shon to the Dark Shide"