MovieChat Forums > Mystic Pizza (1988) Discussion > Incongruity: 'Charles Gordon Windsor, Jr...

Incongruity: 'Charles Gordon Windsor, Jr.'

posted 17 years ago by suuki13
14 replies | jump to latest

The wealthy love interest of Julia Roberts' poor character introduces himself to her, with no small amount of sheepishness whilst standing in her "modest" home, as Charles Gordon Windsor III(he is especially embarrassed about the "III" part). However, he later divulges to Julia's character at the family dinner that his father is a self-made man, a former blue-collar worker who made his own fortune. So, why the blue-blood and bred name, and the discomfort surrounding it?

Anyone else notice this?

EDIT: I remembered his name incorrectly (though IMDB states it correctly). It is Charles Gordon Windsor, Jr., not Charles Gordon Windsor III. (Nevertheless, Julia Roberts' character says something like "[That] figures" upon learning his name.)

[–] cowplop 17 years ago

And why did Daisy call him "junior" if he was a III?

[–] suuki13 17 years ago

I remembered his name incorrectly: he is a Jr., not a III. (See my edit above.) Apologies!

[–] claudia02127 16 years ago

Even if he was a III...that doesn't mean that the 1st had to be a rich fellow....it just means that he was the first one to have that name.

This is a logic free zone:
Use of logic will be met with uncomfortable silences

[–] suuki13 16 years ago

I agree. But the seemingly sheepish tone and manner he takes when telling her his full name seemed to me to imply otherwise--i.e., that his family name,"Windsor" (perhaps alluding to relative old money prestige of the House of Windsor), confers long-standing affluence and eliteness. (Of course, then, not all Windsors affluent.) Given that assumption, though, his being a III, or even a Jr., highlights him as being heir to that family fortune.

I could be totally off-base, though, which is why I'm curious what others may have thought of this. :)

[–] claudia02127 16 years ago

A friend of mine is a III, and he is far from rich...He's just proud of being the third in line with his name.

This is a logic free zone:
Use of logic will be met with uncomfortable silences

[–] ljgor 16 years ago

Yeah my husband is a III and his family weren't rich - and they want me to name our future son the "IV" (which I won't - someone in this family has to have some originality). Some men just feel strongly about naming their sons after themselves - but I think it's a bit egomaniacal.

[–] Mad_Twinkie 16 years ago

The name thing has been cleared. As for his attitude, I know people with more attitude and less money :P

I'm wearing plaid pants and loafers on tuesday.

[–] MrAleisterCrowley 12 years ago

I agree also. I think you are entirely correct to note that this is an issue in the script. I have seen this film more than a dozen times (the wife loves it...), and we comment on this aspect of "Charles" nearly every time we watch it.

It is a weird inconsistency in the script -- it is strongly implied that he comes from old East coast money -- like Ryan O'Neal's character in Love Story. (Why else use the "Windsor" name?) At the dinner party we meet the aunt/uncle who also have money. Then at the dinner party Charles Jr. rants about his father working his way up from a blue collar background. It doesn't make sense. I love this film-- but I alway thought this was a writing problem that should have been corrected. Otherwise Charles is not old money but a nouveau riche arriviste, which would make his family's posturing, with the country club membership and porsches and bmws and so on, look a bit tacky rather than "aristocratic."

They should have gone for a conflict like the one between Ryan O'Neal and his father in Love Story -- he should have mentioned that his father was an incredible over-achiever (in Love Story the father was a Rhodes Scholar and rowed in the Olympics) and that he expected his son to do the same hence all the pressure to measure up.

[–] JrnlofEddieDeezenStudies 15 years ago

Not having the same associations with "Windsor" as someone from the UK would, my impression was that the embarrassment was more from (1) the "Junior" part--I knew a few "juniors" in school and they ALL hated it, and especially hated when others would call them "junior" (usually in a mocking, sing-songy voice), and (2) a perceived pretentiousness to his full name--and that would likely be heightened given that his father was a "self-made man". Just because someone's last name is "Windsor", that doesn't mean they have to be rich, and neither "Charles" nor "Gordon" were uncommon names.

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[–] Zorra007 12 years ago

He was being sarcastic. Hence when Charlie said, "Show her your callouses, Dad," the Dad did nothing. Charlie was calling his Dad out when his Dad said something about "it must be nice to know a life of leisure." Charlie implied that his Dad's life wasn't blue collar.

"Give me life, give me pain, give me myself again"

[–] MrAleisterCrowley 11 years ago

But then the part about the father having been a "steam pipe fitter" when he was Charles's age doesn't make sense. It strongly implies that the father was/is self-made, but at the same time it seems as though Charles is being portrayed as old money (Grandma drives a Rolls Royce for example -- Roberts's character says this when Charles makes the (shortened) trip to Grandma's house). If the money all came from the mother's side, then Charles's sensitivity concerning his name (again because it is implied that she will recognize the name as one of the rich local families, not just because he is a "junior") seems misplaced. Again, it is an inconsistency in the script. The father should have been an overachiever ("Father graduated from Harvard Law at my age and was made junior partner" etc. would have made more sense).

"It's too bad she won't live. But then again, who does?" Blade Runner (1982)

[–] rkelleher 12 years ago

Most people in small towns know the names of the local wealthy families. He realizes that she will likely recognize the name.
As to whether his dad worked his way up and is not, "old money" perhaps the money comes from his mother's side,

[–] PrincessAri 11 years ago

I'm watching this scene right now. I'm pretty sure the line "when dad was my age he was a steam pipe fitter. Show her the callouses dad" or whatever was a completely sarcastic line. His father was talking down to him that he doesn't work very hard and Charlie was talking back basically saying "oh yea like you worked hard. Not".

[–] krasiva-vida 11 years ago

I thought he was being sarcastic too. I also thought maybe grandpa Windsor made his sons work a low tier job in the family business so they could get a 'feel' for it.