MovieChat Forums > Frantic (1988) Discussion > great movie, but one big plot hole

great movie, but one big plot hole

posted 14 years ago by ariesgemini100
24 replies | jump to latest

This is one of my favorite movies at all! The more am I disappointed that it has one big plot hole. And I even did not notice the first time I watched it :-) So: Why the heck do the gangsters kidnap the wife at all? They could just go to the hotel with the wrong suitcase, let the lady come down from her hotel room, tell her that there was a mix-up of suitcases, hand over to her the wrong suitcase and let her hand over the suitcase that they want - without any hassle. But of course, then the movie would have ended after 10 Minutes - and we wouldn't have a masterpiece like "Frantic" :-)

[–] burnplant 14 years ago

I enjoyed the movie, but yeah, this is a gaping plot hole.

That was my first thought as well...why not take the suitcase through force if they had too...

I would love for someone to tell us what we are missing here. Maybe I'm wrong, but what the heck?

[–] HombreOfAnotherEra 13 years ago

i think the item wasn't in the case though? i may be wrong?

[–] Catdubh 11 years ago

i think the item wasn't in the case though? i may be wrong?
Yes, it was. The detonator was in the small, statue (of Liberty, I think), which was in the suitcase.

Jack's not dead! Jack would never die without telling me, first!

[–] I_Created_U 9 years ago

That's not a plothole, OP simply didn't understand the plot to begin with.

The Arabs who kidnapped the wife had no way of knowing that there was a mix-up, nor that she wasn't the woman with whom they had a deal.

People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs

[–] Eumenides_0 14 years ago

That's really well spotted and I don't have any explanation for that. I guess it's movie logic - criminals will always be more violent and brutal than they need to be.

This world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel.

[–] my_mom_says_im_cool 14 years ago

They didn't know that there was a mix up with the suitcases, or even who the girl hired to deliver the suitcase was, so they probably thought this person was somehow involved with screwing them over.

Does the space cold make your nipples go all pointy?

[–] 14 years ago

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[–] jcosson 14 years ago

Remember that Michelle was only supposed to leave the statue in the train station locker, not her whole suitcase. The Moussad agent was following her so, spur of the moment, she left the suitcase assuming that the buyer would find the statue inside and she would charge Dede for her lost clothes and Elle magazines. The "Arab" agents didn't know Michelle was the mule and instead thought that Sondra Walker was involved. Since Sondra's suitcase was found in the locker, they went looking for her to give them the statue, a thing she had no knowledge of possessing. They resorted to kidnapping not realizing that the statue was locked inside Michelle's suitcase in the Walker's hotel room. They would have had no knowledge of the mix up of bags, only that they were short one statue with a bomb switch inside.

[–] den09 13 years ago

Yeah, I think You are right... jcosson...
and I think maybe that is why both women were wearing same tone red at the finale.
But I did wonder for a while why they took Walker's wife and agree with other writer that Sondra Walker would have been a better 'mule' more sophisticated etc., but the idea of using the wild and impetuous , punkette, Michelle 'bump=started' the plot .

Enjoyed it,

tis a pity they killed her ( the wonderful Michelle ) off. I thought she should have walked away to her empty( ish ) life, would have been equally as moving, after the scene on the rooftop and the look she gives Walker when he is reaching for her!

H Ford has to grab his wife desperately ( not she , he ) and say "I love you so much." this could have been a stronger , more ambivalent metaphor if the girl was walking away in the early morning mist ... to emptiness... when she had become close to a 'nice, but straight guy' . Could have / would have... resounded more, for me anyway....but Hollywood you know... bang bang everyone dead !

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] LightningLad 13 years ago

My understanding was that they thought Mrs. Walker was the delivery girl because they didn't know what she looked like or how old she was. I personally would have preferred to hire a woman like that to do my smuggling, ie Michelle looked suspicious.

But anyway, I'll watch it again more carefully.

-----
Reason is a pursuit, not a conclusion.

[–] UberNoodle 13 years ago

It's not a plot hole. It's just something that appears inexplicable or of poor decision making in hindsight.

A plot hole is NOT part of the story which you didn't understand or agree was 'logical enough'. A plot hole is something broken in the logic and rules of the story.

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] petziman 12 years ago

Still makes no sense at all. If the Arabs had thought Mrs. Walker was the smuggler and wanted to rip them off they should have been able to realize that then she would not have left her suitcase with her name and address on it in the locker.
And why killing Dede ??? He would have told them that Mrs. Walker wasn't the smuggler and then (even) the Arabs who are shown as cliché stupid gangsters should have understood what has really happened.

[–] spookyrat1 11 years ago

Still makes no sense at all. If the Arabs had thought Mrs. Walker was the smuggler and wanted to rip them off they should have been able to realize that then she would not have left her suitcase with her name and address on it in the locker.
And why killing Dede ??? He would have told them that Mrs. Walker wasn't the smuggler and then (even) the Arabs who are shown as cliché stupid gangsters should have understood what has really happened.

And why do they stop in the lobby of the hotel, as we are told by the concierge and buy toiletries as they are kidnapping Mrs Walker and then wait so long to contact Richard?

The first half of this movie features a mysterious and suspenseful set-up to a plot that Polanski is simply not capable of bringing to fruition in the second half.

Compared to his better films like Chinatown, Rosemary's Baby and Knife in the Water, Frantic is a pretty ordinary offering.

[–] TheEndIsNigh (347) 3 days ago

"And why killing Dede???"

They didn't. The film literally told us they didn't. It's the reason why Harrison Ford's character is a doctor for that bit of info for us. Dede was obviously killed by a drugs customer who didn't want to pay or a rival drug dealer. Whoever it was, it wasn't the Arabs.

"They kill Dede?".
"No, I don't think so".
"You think I lie?".
"You gave them the wrong suitcase this morning, Dede's being dead for over one day".
"Who says?".
"I say".
"How do you know? Are you a doctor?".
"No corpse stinks that much after just twelve hours, not even Dede, take my word for it, yes I am a doctor".

[–] ak47wong (577) 3 days ago

I was always confused by this. So Dede was murdered two days before Michelle arrived with the smuggled goods for entirely unrelated reasons? That seems like a far fetched coincidence.

[–] TheEndIsNigh (347) 3 days ago

Highly unlikely but not impossible with his seedy lifestyle and people he would've encountered.

But yeah, it was either going with a huge coincidence or leaving a huge plot hole because as someone else said, the Arabs would've had him talking.

[–] ChristmasStan 11 years ago

I think there might be an explanation of that if we were to see the deleted footage. RP had to cut the film at Warner Brothers insistence.

Where I come from the birds always sing a pretty song & there's always music in the air!

[–] witster18 10 years ago

criminals' first inclination would NOT be that it was just a mix-up... they would immediately think someone had stolen their $*(^@.. in their mind the suitcase probably wasn't even there(or at least the contents they were looking for) anymore anyway... there's actually a few quote unquote plot holes, but all of them have the 'ability' to be explained much the way that I just explained this one.. to me it's actually one of the great characteristics of this film... it gives us so little in terms of characters/plot/storyline, yet it's on of the most visually spectacular, and one of the best directed films of the last 30 years. I love the fact that we have to try to fill in the holes... so many years later I still think about this film, and when I do I imagine all the great stuff that might have been left on the editing floor, and the perfection that was achieved in doing so... even if we don't get everything spelled out for us the way we want..

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[–] Tokyo55 8 years ago

Frantic is one of my favorite films also. That part of the plot never bothered me and I agree with some of the explanations given.

A few things bugged me, but nothing as much as Michelle endangering Sondra's life twice & then committing suicide by terrorist, by demanding her money which she had already received from the good doctor. She knew that Dede was the one who was supposed to have paid her and even if she wanted to be greedy, she could easily have gotten more money from the Doctor. I also felt she had plenty of time & opportunity to escape from being shot at all.

Emmanuelle Seigner made the movie for me. I thought she was the most complete character & beautiful, in spite of her disgusting nail biting. She made up for the terrible casting choice of Betty Buckley. A better looking actress would have created more sympathy & drama. Harrison Ford could have done a lot better.

They also made the terrorists too nice & the Israeli's too mean, but I'm sure that has to do with Roman Polanski's politics.

There are a bunch of holes in the movie, but I loved it, own the DVD, have seen it near a dozen times including this month & given the time, will likely watch it many more times.