I'm all for the kinky stuff...
...but dang. You have to be some major sadist to get off on what Pinhead and his crew are offering ya.
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MovieChat Forums > Hellraiser (1987) Discussion > I'm all for the kinky stuff...
I would argue you are more of a masochist if getting ripped apart by chains is your thing. Just look at his wonderful face at the end of the film. "Jesus wept..." and the way he licks his lips.
"Nervous? -Yes. First time? -No, I've been nervous before."
How does someone get pleasure at the same time as the pain if all they're getting is wide piercings in their flesh? Where's the pleasure part of it? Wish they'd explain.
shareDo you REALLY want to know the answer to that question?
shareApparently S&M people have trained themselves to get off on pain...I learned this as a child from Mad Magazine, although I have no intention of participating in this form of recreation...
shareYou don't have to "train yourself" to feel pleasure from pain. You either feel it or you don't.
But I guess if you're in the latter category you can try to change by training, however I have never heard of it. The ones that get aroused by being hurt always felt like that.
To be honest.
The Cenobites only offer whatever the box opener desired.
So it was not the Cenobites being "major sadists"...it was the opener of the box and what they desired.
The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he is God.
I dunno...I don't think Frank desired to be ripped to shreds. Kirsty was just curious when she opened the box, but they were gonna take her anyway, even though she had no desire for anything, really.
But this is something I don't really get either --- I stapled my finger the other day on accident and it hurt like holy hell, nothing even remotely pleasurable about it. Other than that, I just don't really get the pain as pleasure thing, at all. And because of that, there is always something about Hellraiser that I'll never quite understand. To me the Cenobites will always just be psycho torturers from hell rather than "enlightened" beings that trascend pleasure/pain.
There are people who get aroused by pain. I never knew anyone who liked hooks in their skin though.
No dessert Jerri. Don't touch the dog. DON'T rub your feces on the lamp shade.
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What about those western "modern primitives" who let giant hooks be put through parts of their chests and then hang themselves from them for kicks? Intense pain causes alterations in consciousness. People can do very harmful things to themselves - like hardcore drugs - in order to experience a different consciousness.
There are (non masochistic) people who cut and hurt themselves in order to feel something instead of nothing, when they're emotionally numb from some trauma. The pain reminds them that they have a body and that they are alive... they feel dead inside and this wakes them to life.
I'm guessing that Frank had done so much sh*t that he became desensitized to the world and no amount of drugs, hardcore sadistic sex, or causing others pain could make him feel anything anymore. So he opened the box because he wanted to FEEL SOMETHING again, something so intense that it would override the fact that he was dead inside. He was a sadistic psychopath and got off on other people's pain - having no empathy like that is like living in a wasteland of numbness. He said in the film that he was always searching out more and more intense experiences - pushing the limits - and it was implied that nothing could satisfy his craving for some kind of sensation - to feel anything at all.
All of his searching for more and more intense experience - and eventually intense pain physical and psychological pain - was just a substitute for the human emotions that he didn't have.
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The UK, America, any developed nation, has practitioners of Body Modification, aka Modern Primitives. Here are a few links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_primitive
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_modification
Also, many people in BDSM can attest to other states of consciousness when in scene:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subspace_(BDSM)
Watch Martyrs, Strangeland, and other films of that ilk for modern explorations into these kinds of things. As far as I know, Hellraiser was the first to suggest these things in horror.
To the person who didnt understand why/how someone could get off to pain of any kind, much less of the magnitude of that depicted in the film...
Well there have been theories and writings about this sh*t for centuries at this point, but you would be astounded at what gets people off.
Amputation, vore, corpohilia, its hard to pick a single horrible experience on the planet that at least a few people wouldn't be able to get off to.
As a rule of the internet states... "If it exists, it is someones fetish." lol
But.... I doubt ANYONE would get off to somebody literally tearing their body apart. That is different than getting piercings and people that like to cut on their arms and stuff.
The scary clown doll is hiding under my bed.
Never underestimate humanities capicty for depravity.
Even if they would not enjoy the reality, there ARE people who are at least interesetd at the concept. Remember the guy in Germany who willingly met a cannibal and let himself get eaten?
Also some people may be willing to suffer for what they see as the greater pleasure. The cenobites do some VERY painful things to their charges but they view it as the key to a greater thing, sensation. A level of feeling where pain and pleasure cease to exist (or maybe just become interchangable) and it is just pure sensation.
"Even if they would not enjoy the reality, there ARE people who are at least interesetd at the concept. Remember the guy in Germany who willingly met a cannibal and let himself get eaten?"
I was going to mention this very thing in this topic! The cannibal doped him out on painkillers though, so I'm not sure how much about the pain it was as a simple desire to be consumed.
---
Sad story. You got a smoke?
Take a look
http://www2.fiu.edu/~mizrachs/Modprim.JPG
Well, movie aside, the fact is there can be no pleasure if there is no pain. Your brain wouldn't recognize something as "feeling good" if something didn't "feel bad." MOST things are on this sort of spectrum. You would never be happy if you had also didn't have the capacity to be sad. I BELIEVE (and this is sort of speculation) that the movie sort of alludes to this. If you feel nothing at all but pain for an extended period of time, then the tiniest amount of pleasure is going to be magnifide. Kind of like if you are REALLY thirsty and then you take a drink of water the water tastes REALLY good. Or if you go about 18 or so hours without eating, whatever you eat is going to taste REALLY good. I think this is sort of like that.
By the way, I am right behind you.
It seems highly unlikely that Kirsty had any desire for chains with hooks on them (yes, I realize in the second film Pinhead said Kirsty was "So eager to play, so reluctant to admit it", but I suspect that he was just trying to mess with her head, as Pinhead was really eager to "experience her flesh").
shareI think when we grow up by nature we associate pain with being something bad so we stop doing it. If we burn ourselves, stub our toe, fall to the ground, we associate with negativity. Some people can get past that initial knee jerk reaction of it being bad and learn to enjoy it.
When someone cuts your skin, the nerves send messages to the brain. When you feel something soft and nice the same nerves send messages to the brain. The brain interprets these message as either good or bad. If you took the pain messages as feeling good to the brain then you would enjoy the pain.
It would all depend on how far you are able to let go in order to enjoy that pain. If you went on top of a mountain and meditated for a very long time, eventually you could find Zen or bliss and clear your mind of any negative thoughts or feelings. I think what they offer here is the other side of the coin where pain is the ultimate pleasure.
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it´s like when you cut yourself by accident, or stump your foot. To begin with you feel extreme pain, but once you have overcome the pain, or it goes away you feel relief and to some people pleasure. In the case with the the lament configuration the pain and relief/pleasure is amplified a thousand times.
The pain is worth the pleasure for some.
It's explained more in the book, basically the box hightens your senses to the point where you can see, hear and FEEL everything. What the cenobites offer Frank is simply an "experience without limits" this appeals to him due to his sexual frustration. As he says to Julia after sex - "It's never enough"
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this isnt bondage, corsets and kinky leather . this is serious pain
On Earth everyone can hear you scream
Scientists have found that areas of the brain that respond to feelings of pleasure also react to the sensation of pain. But I don't think being ripped apart by hooks on chains is every masochist dream :D
shareIf the last sensory emotion we have is blissfully painful and beautiful at the same time, culminating in the life force of being torn asunder, do our consciousness feel it for all eternity?
Isn't that what the cenobites promise?
I agree! Ouch, really ouch! I had a dream where Pinhead put hooks through me and I had to forcefully tear them out from my skin! It was agony and in no way sexual, I can tell ya!
"Hey! Ladies! That was fun!"
I guess I am glad that me and the hubby are the most boring vanilla couple ever! Maybe French vanilla, or vanilla bean sometimes....but the s and m in this is crazy.
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