Frank is scarier than the Cenobites! - Hellraiser (1987) Discussion

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] ricky-may1 13 years ago

i wish they would have made Julia the series recurring villain. also i wish andrew robinson had reprised his role for the sequel because i wanted Kirsty to save him from Hell like in the original script. also the ending in the script was much creepier, having julia coming out of the mattress saying "love me" is scary as hell

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[–] Bugz_moran 13 years ago

The book it's based on had a much more optimistic ending. Maybe there are other boxes/dimensions he may have been sent to. It would have made for a more interesting story if she went after him by solving other boxes.

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[–] glynis23-282-577521 10 years ago

Unfortunately Claire Higgins didn't want to be in any further sequels and the public took Pinhead to it's heart, which goes to show you can't knowingly create a villain.

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[–] Husskade 13 years ago

Totally agree with the OP.

I hadn't realised that this film is now 20 plus years old until today,whenever I see a puzzle box this film always comes to mind because it's such a good one and Frank and Julia are still vivid in my memory...

Don't worry ever, because this is just a ride.It's just a ride. Bill Hicks.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] Danimal_77 12 years ago

It's actually 25 years old.

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[–] stevielanding 9 years ago

25 years old -- 20 plus years old. Both are more accurate than we need.

Mairzy doats and dozy doats, but liddle lamzi nothing.

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[–] snoho 13 years ago

The main reason they probably kept with the Cenobites was because they were appealing to market. Most horror franchises have a scary face that they like to have recurring. If that makes sense.

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[–] sugarteacream 12 years ago

yeah, couldn't even look at frank esp when he was in his one step away from skin phase - urgggggggggggghhhhhhh disgusting and red raw. I didn't even like this film because of that

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[–] Banshee57 12 years ago

Frank confronting Julia in the attic the first time..all white tissue and puss. That was frightening.

When will you ever learn, this feeling is all you can discern?

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[–] gljbradley 12 years ago

I agree with the OP and EVERYONE. Even though the Cenobites were very intimadating and freaky, it was Frank and Julia who were the scary villains. I mean, the way they were in terms personality, characteristics and fondness of S&M were just unnerving. I also would've liked it if they stuck around in some of the sequels. As you guys said, they were the reason why the Lemarchand's Box/Lament Configuration unleashed more Hell(figurtively and literally) that set the tone for the rest of the events in this franchise.

It would've been cool if there was a sequel where, once again, as someone else had said, Kirsty spent her time not only in serious therapy but also traveling the world finding similar puzzle boxes and trying to solve them in order to find Larry, her father, and save him once and for all. Except the catch is, while that happens, Frank and Julia once again escapes from Hell, go around draining people, and their main goal this time is not only finishing what they started in unleashing Hell on Earth but to get revenge on Kirsty for basically putting them into Hell and into the "care" of the Cenobites(even though the first time for Frank was his own fault). Once again, Pinhead and his minions are out searching for them, and he somehow wants to find Kirsty to warn her of the danger she's in again. Yes, I'm one of those people that always thought that Pinhead has a bit of a soft spot for Kirsty and he may want to protect her. I guess that's the 'Elliot' side of him there.

Anyway, back on topic. Yes, Frank is diabolical and memorable, and he as well as Julia would've been great reaccuring villains in this franchise.

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[–] glynis23-282-577521 10 years ago

Think by looking at Pinhead and the other Cenobites that they were more appealing to market and have horror fans by awed by them, can't imagine why Barker & Co didn't think it was gonna happen.

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[–] enmasse 12 years ago

ricky-may1: Frank is scarier than the Cenobites!

I think so too. In Hellbound: Hellraiser II, Julia was much scarier than the Cenobites. In fact, in the sequel, the mental patients are scarier than they are...

gljbradley: It would've been cool if there was a sequel where, once again, as someone else had said, Kristy spent her time not only in serious therapy but also traveling the world finding similar puzzle boxes and trying to solve them in order to find Larry, her father, and save him once and for all. Except the catch is, while that happens, Frank and Julia once again escapes from Hell, go around draining people, and their main goal this time is not only finishing what they started in unleashing Hell on Earth but to get revenge on Kristy for basically putting them into Hell and into the "care" of the Cenobites(even though the first time for Frank was his own fault). Once again, Pinhead and his minions are out searching for them, and he somehow wants to find Kristy to warn her of the danger she's in again. Yes, I'm one of those people that always thought that Pinhead has a bit of a soft spot for Kristy and he may want to protect her. I guess that's the 'Elliot' side of him there.

I would have watched this! Although I liked the sequel very much, admittedly, it could have been better, especially in the first 30 minutes. The sequel made it seem like it was relatively easy to find Lemarchand's boxes. Additionally, it seemed like quite a stretch that a collector of these boxes happened to reside in the same town as Kirsty.

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[–] Indra_1000_Eyes 12 years ago

Indeed. The Cenobites are essentially amoral, they worship a god of flesh, hunger and desire. None of these things are inherently evil, nor are the Cenobites, who are "angels to some, demons to others." They are not intentionally malevolent. They are gurus who teach through pain which, most anyone can agree, is a very effective instructor. Pain can elevate, inspire ecstasy. Just look at the hagiographies of the saints and the self-mortification of holy men in almost all religious traditions. Very similar to the film Martyrs.

Now, Frank, on the other hand, is a disgusting piece of *beep* Probably the most reprehensible character in the history of fiction. He is a whoremonger, an adulterer who cuckolded his own brother, a rapist, a fratricidal murderer, a serial killer, a child molester (it is very heavily implied he molested Kirsty when she was younger...poor Larry was just too oblivious to notice), a petty sadist, a coward...you get the picture. I felt bad for the Cenobites, actually, tasked with trying to teach such a waste of human flesh who was obviously not sensitive to learn from their brutal lessons.

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[–] Gmork76 12 years ago

Frank is every woman's fantasy and is the kind of man that makes your wife cheat on you.

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[–] Horror_Metal 12 years ago

I couldn't agree more. I love how this movie focused on Frank and not on Pinhead and the Cenobites. As others have said, he should have been a recurring villain throughout the series. Pinhead is an awesome and extremely interesting character, but once the franchise started to revolve around him it went downhill.

Horror_Metal

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[–] HellboundHero 12 years ago

I don't see how that would have worked. He was the main villain of Hellraiser, true, but he's a pretty simple guy. A hedonist with questionable morals who wants his skin back isn't enough to support an entire series, IMO.

Even though the cenobites are in the background and not the main villains, they're what makes the series interesting. To me, they're the defining element. Without the cenobites, Frank would just be some horny and frustrated miscreant, not a blood-sucking, skinless monstrosity. They set in motion the events of all the movies and comics regardless of the amount of screen/page time they get.

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Batman and other superheroes' complexity is exaggerated.

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[–] Horror_Metal 12 years ago

Well I still think that the sequels should have told different stories with the Cenobites playing a minor role. Having Pinhead as the star was a big mistake in my opinion. Perhaps the rest of the series could have featured other souls escaping from hell with the Cenobites after them. I'm sure they could have found ways to keep that interesting.

Horror_Metal

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[–] glynis23-282-577521 10 years ago

Barker did that the sequels have been overly dominated by Pinhead simply because audiences want to see more of him, Barker it's a problem the more you show of a character/villain the more likely it is the audience will become overly familiar with him or her and just no longer scared, Barker saids it happened to Freddy and Michael Myers.

Having a franchise built around a character does something to their essence like gotten stale it happened with Arnold Schwarzenegger in the Terminator movies and Sigourney Weaver in the Alien movies.

The magic of the original can never be replicated.