MovieChat Forums > Good Morning, Vietnam (1988) Discussion > Questions on rank

Questions on rank

posted 18 years ago by grandsammer
16 replies | jump to latest

I've never understood about how rank and personnel in different branches of the service work together at Armed Forces Radio.

Cronauer, being an airman, is clearly in the Air Force. But Garlick, the private, is apparently in the Army. Sgt. Major Dickerson, the General, and the Lieutenant seemingly are also.

Cronauer, at one point, makes a remark about getting up early because "it's the army, I have to". Later, he speaks of the possibility of being sent into the field with a rifle and coming home in a box. I don't understand how that can be since, as noted above, he is an USAF airman.

Since there are personnel from all the different branches at AFR, how is it established who is in authority? Does one branch predominate? In the movie, it appears that most at AFR are in the Army (except for Cronauer). Is this how it is in the actual AFR?

Also, in real life, do officers any in branch of the U.S. military, under ordinary circumstances, have authority of any kind over NCOs in the OTHER branches? For example, if an Army private encounters an admiral in the Navy, can the admiral give the private orders, discipline him, etc.? Would the private be obligated to do what the admiral tells him? Does he have to address him in a certain way?

I apologize if these questions sound stupid. I have never been in the service, and have no personal experience with military matters.

I hope that someone here will be kind enough to assist me with some info on this area.

Thanks, and have a great day.

Sam

[–] hgarmorer 18 years ago

Man where to begin...

Ok it's a Unified Command meaning a Unified Combatant Command is a United States military group composed of forces from two or more services, has a broad and continuing mission, and is organized either on a geographical basis (known as "Area Of Responsibility", AOR) or on a functional basis. In modern terms, that particular area would fall regionally under USPACOM or US Pacific Command. One guy is charge, doesn't matter which service. Historically, thought PACOM has always had a Navy admiral as the commander.

In the movies and in real life it seems the Army may be in charge more because they basically have more people to choose from. Not always the case though.

Military rank is more than just who salutes whom. Military rank is a badge of leadership. Responsibility for personnel, equipment, and mission grows with each increase in rank. No matter what you rank/service is, if they have more rank you listen and do. Everyone service has a different way of addressing the ranks. But it applies across to all services. http://www.leathernecklane.com/marine/ranks/enlisted.htm
http://www.leathernecklane.com/marine/ranks/officer.htm

As far as Cronauer is concerned with the weapon and box statement...if you could walk, shoot and where in country, you had the chance of going in the bush. There were and are alot of USAF personel that are in combat all the time. Mainly in Vietnam, aircrews (pilots, navs, gunners etc) were in constant danger. The guys back at the firebase were relatively "safe" depending how far the Vietcong pushed forward and attacked.

I hopes this helps, let me know if you need more.

LLLETS GO--CAPT Tenneal MXC

[–] grandsammer 18 years ago

That was helpful. I appreciate it very much.

Thanks, and have a great day.

Sam

[–] hgarmorer 18 years ago

No problem

LLLETS GO--CAPT Tenneal MXC

[–] moviegeek71 18 years ago

Another thing to take into consideration is that the Air Force was the Army Air Corps, a part of the Army, until 1941. The Army Air Corps (Air Force) was a part of the Army until the restructure in 1941, much like the Marine Corps and Navy; thus they often work together.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Air_Corps

[–] XLCH1000 17 years ago

The United States Air Force was created in 1947, by a bill signed by Harry Truman. If you look at the Air Force coat of arms, you'll notice the roman numeral for 1947. But, admittedly, during the war, the Army Air Forces were often referred to as, "the Air Force" It just wasnt a separate branch until '47.
A USAF veteran.

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] okibeav 15 years ago

hgarmorer, good explanation. I finsihed my time in the Marine Corps at the Pentagon on a joint assignment. I'll assume you are a Devil Dog also since you used a USMC for reference. Got to go now. Semper Fi!

[–] devoelodi 18 years ago

Well, there was this one time, in the Air Force, and there were navy people around, and we didnt know navy rank. I, myself was already standing. A navy guy yelled out "ATTENTION ON DECK!!!!!" we didnt know what that meant but common since would tell you to stand at attention. Well, one guy didnt and he got chewed out by the Navy Officer. Rank is rank.

[–] grandsammer 18 years ago

This info is very much appreciated.

Thanks, and have a great day.

Sam

[–] gus00 17 years ago

re: "Cronauer, at one point, makes a remark about getting up early because "it's the army, I have to". Later, he speaks of the possibility of being sent into the field with a rifle and coming home in a box. I don't understand how that can be since, as noted above, he is an USAF airman."

Beyond the military issues, which have been well covered, Cronauer has to relate to his audience. The last thing he would ever do on the air is point out the fact that he may be living more comfortably or be in less danger than the grunts in the field listening to him on the radio. He has to talk about the world they live in everyday, hence the characters, Roosevelt T. Roosevelt and Bob Beemer.

Gus
"It needs more cow-bell"

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] sonofbeach-sheet 16 years ago

"I get the impression that in US Army, today at least, new soldiers reach the E-2 paygrade by the time they have completely finished training and begin active duty, and become PFCs (E-3) within a year of active duty. Then they usually become Specialists (E-4) not too "

Very true. In the Air Force, it's impossible to be an E4 in less than 2 1/2 years or an E5 in less than 4. Whereas in the Army, that's about the average time people make those ranks. Air Force people make rank from E5 on up from written tests taken once a year. Which is why the majority who've been in around 10 years are still E5's, because they either haven't studied or don't test well.

Back to the movie, Cronauer had the mentality of many Airmen that want to treat the Air Force as a 9-5 job and the Army are fully aware, even among the slackers, that they own your ass 24-7.

[–] krspas2 16 years ago

Actually in middle 1965 (I went in-country in June '65) Saigon AFRTS
(Armed Forces Radio-Television Service) had personnel from the Army
(mostly) and some Air Force Personnel. Radio Saigon was run by
the Army. They made the programming rules. But as far as command structure
the Officers and senior NCO's were Army and other personnel had to
follow the Chain-of-Command the Army brass established. The Senior
and Junior Officers would be Army. The Senior NCO's would also be
almost all Army. The Air Force Bases such as Bien Hoa, Pleiku and the rest
were Air Force operations staffed by Air Force AFRTS personnel. There was
land-feed of Cronauer's program throughout the South each day with News
coming from Saigon also. The bulk of the rest of the time was local
personnel.
As for Cronauer, he was not like what was depicted in the movie. Yes,
he was a little differnet from the run of the mill Army DJ, but the
Movie depiction was totally Robin Williams. As for the Sgt. Major saying
he would put Cronauer in an Infantry outfit, not hardly. There is still
a dividing line as to what an Army NCO could do with assignments for any
Air Force Personnel. Air Force personnel were all support for the Air War.
Some AF personnel did do ground combat, but they were Air Police (later
Security Police) guarding Air Force Bases and their assets.
Cronauer even stated that he was not relieved of his duties early, as
depicted in the film, but served his full one year tour like the rest
of us (except Al Gore and John Kerry).
Garlick could have been an E-2, the Army at that time had the first
stripe as an E-3 Private First Class. Cronauer had one stripe and
at the time that was an Airman Third Class (E-2).

[–] RobBase086-1 16 years ago

Different branches can be confusing but if you know the person is a certain rank and it is high enough to salute then you had to do that. Plus, the person with the highest rank would be your commanding officer.

It will be set up in a chain of command to be honest with you.

Dedicated to USA UP ALL NIGHT and the fans of the show! www.deefilmroll.com/usa-uan/

[–] atork88 14 years ago

I have a couple questions about rank to add while we're on the subject. The first is why was Garlick calling Cronaur sir, weren't they the same rank (private first class)? The second is why was Sgt. Major Dickerson upset when people called him sir? Don't you call any officer of a higher rank than you sir? Because the General was addressed as sir and he was fine with it. Thanks in advance.

[–] Altho73 14 years ago

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'I have a couple questions about rank to add while we're on the subject. The first is why was Garlick calling Cronaur sir, weren't they the same rank'
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nothing to do with rank. Garlick had probably heard Cronauer's radio broadcasts somewhere else and had a lot of respect for him, so he was calling him 'sir' because he respected him.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'The second is why was Sgt. Major Dickerson upset when people called him sir? Don't you call any officer of a higher rank than you sir? Because the General was addressed as sir and he was fine with it.'
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You certainly do address any officer in the military as sir, but Dickerson was not an officer, he was a sergeant major. A sergeant major is one of the highest ranking non commissioned ranks in the army but is not an officer. Only officers (ranks of lieutenant or above) are saluted or addresses as sir. Dickerson should have been addressed as sergeant major.

If you address any non commissioned rank as sir you will get the reply, 'I work for a living'!!!!! This was a saying that originated in the British Army back in the days when the ranks were composed purely of working men and to be an officer you had to be a member of the aristocracy, born with a silver spoon in your mouth and never done a day's work in your life. Then daddy would buy you a commission in the army enabling you to carry on your life of luxury.