MovieChat Forums > Star Trek: The Next Generation (1987) Discussion > The Borg, Q and The Shadows make no sens...

The Borg, Q and The Shadows make no sense

posted 9 months ago by avortac4 (3751)
3 replies | jump to latest

This is a bit difficult topic to tackle or explain, but this TV show, just like Babylon 5, make something that could have been EPIC, into just another boring materialism-based physical thing. Sigh.

There is also the problem that this show begins and ends with Q, which could hint to the possibility that EVERYTHING happens as an illusion - a dream of the Q, something Q created for his own amusement. I also hate how non-potent (can't really use the proper word) Q is shown to be. Why would he ever need to ask 'Quinan? Is that what your name is now?'. HE SHOULD KNOW what her name is now!

I want to address the potential versus what we were shown. I realize these are 'just' TV shows, and what they managed to do with them, was remarkable. However, there's always something pulling back from the true greatness things could elevate towards.

'The Matrix' was originally conceived a bit differently; human batteries do not make sense, but human 'dreams as source of creativity' or something, would. But it was 'too complicated' for the masses, so it was dumbed down to 'batteries'.

This phenomenon also happened with the 'Police Squad!' TV show, that was cut short exactly because it REQUIRED somethign from the viewer. A TV show can't be allowed to do THAT, now can it?

What I am getting at is.. 'The Borg' had so much potential, and it was all deduced, reduced, compressed and stupidified until there was only a ridiculous name, a CUBE of all shapes (still want to bang my head against the wall because of this), and gloomy GOTH-EMO visuals (can't groan hard enough to let out all my frustration) left.

If you watch the first 'Borg-episode', where they are DESCRIBING this unknown, super powerful, almost mystical enemy they know nothing about, it's intriquing! It's exciting.. it's interesting, it's even a little bit scary.

Then we are SHOWN it.. and it's .. a grey cube. Could it BE more dull? Seriously, could it? A GREY CUBE?! The only horrifying thing about THAT is how normalized and prevalent such soul-crushing non-design is in our world. Even my toilet floor is now a grey grid, when it used to be more interesting. No tessellation required, I guess.. sigh.

It's like interesting shapes and colors are BANNED, but this show was still in the eighties when this happened, so it was almost like foreshadowing of how dull life, movies, TV shows, ideas and the world were to become. It's most depressing.

The Borg could have been called something that DOESN'T sound like a Norwegian meal, it could have been shaped (or even non-shaped!) like something better than a friggin' CUBE (why, oh, why..??). It could have utilized better visuals than a grey box, and it could have looked better than emo-goths. Seriously, what's with this 'design'?

How are we supposed to feel this is something 'epic', when the design is so dull, boring and 'goth'? It's ridiculous!

The same problem happened with Babylon 5 and the Shadows or whatever they were called. For first two seasons, they were foreSHADOWing (urgh.. that name also.., but better than 'The Borg') something truly mysterious, hardly ever seen, a force that can move in an out of dimensions and whatnot. Wow, what an interesting mystery, I bet they will be some kind of semi-shapeless, interdimensional, occult entities with no clear form and..
..

..oh, they are just spider-shaped, physical vessels, inhabited by spiderlike, physical beings that can just become invisible.

HUH?

How do they build so much mystery, and then the reveal is something SO lackluster and SO physical, it boggles the mind?

How do they botch this opportunity to create either shapeless, or constantly shapeshifting forms for simple spider-shaped 3D models that are supposed to be scary somehow?

HOW??

Think of what both of these 'epic mysterious powers' could have been!

Let your imagination loose, you have my permission - you are allowed to think multiple dimensions, not just invisibility - you are allowed to use colors and energy flows of all kinds, you are allowed to think 'shapelessness' and beautiful shapes shifting into each other, interdimensional shifting of shape and color, ethereal, spiritlike non-forms flying about.. energy fields that morph colorfully into each other!

But no, we get a GREY CUBE and SPIDER 3D MODEL and that's it!

How the F do they botch an interesting idea like this?

It makes no sense to dullify and stupidify things that COULD have been so epic. All this wasted potential makes me so mad!

If you only listen to descriptions of 'The Borg' before they are shown and forget the name, WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN... it kills my poor heart.

Same with 'The Shadows' before they are shown - they way they are described.. ooh, what could have been indeed. Even the sounds are really appropriate for something TRULY 'other-wordly'!

But we can't have anything interesting, so all we get is Kosh in some weird suit saying idiotic platitudes that are of no use to anyone, and spider-shaped 3D models.. the humanity!

[–] avortac4 (3751) 9 months ago

This kind of thing really bothers me.. they introduce an amazing concept that gets your imagination flowing and energies maxxed out, and then they DULLIFY it by introducing a god damn cardboard box painted grey. What the F..??!

It's also weird, how in many episodes, Q could EASILY have saved them, but somehow 'isn't around'.

It also bothers me that people that write 'omnipotent beings', always neglect to make them 'omniscient'.

The thing about omnipotence that writers don't seem to quite grasp (even in old comics, this is true - anything Beyonder does makes no sense, because he SHOULD ALREADY KNOW EVERYTHING)..

..is that it's a TRI-fecta. Always.

You can't have Omnipotence without Omniscience. How can you do 'anything', if you are clueless about the ingredients of Lasagna? You can't make Lasagna unless you know exactly what ingredients are needed, how those ingredients are made, what they should taste like, what amount of each ingredient to put in and how, how gravity affects every layer of that dish, how long it has to be heated to reach the maximum deliciousness AND SO ON and so forth.

If you never even heard of Lasagna, have no idea what it is supposed to look, smell or taste like, how it's usually made and so on, how can you ever create it, even by traditional methods, let alone 'by powers'? You can't!

So you can't be omnipotent unless you know EVERYthing, or there will be things you simply can not do or achieve. If you don't know that there is a galaxy behind some black hole, how are you going to affect anything in that galaxy? You have to not only know the galaxy, but intimately know every single atom and thought that happens in that galaxy, or you are NOT omnipotent.

This brings me to omniPRESENCE.

How can you be omniscient or omnipotent (this is why each component needs the others), if you can't be present EVERYwhere all the time? If you are away from a planet, you can't affect what's going on there, right? So then you are no longer omnipotent.

[–] avortac4 (3751) 9 months ago

This means, you can't really be omnipotent, unless you not only KNOW everything that happens EVERYwhere in ALL of existence ALL the time, but also, unless you ARE everywhere, and you basically FORM all existence out of yourself, because you have to be in every atom simultaneously to be able to know EVERYTHING, and to be able to DO everything.

So, even if you want to argue or debate about it or don't understand it to be true, Omnipotence requires Omniscience that requires Omnipresence. In fact, all three basically require each other. Of course you could make the case that omniscience doesn't necessarily require omnipotence, but I say it's pretty darn impossible to be omniscient without omnipotence... though I can leave this detail to the philosophers.

Suffice to say, Q, being omnipotent, should be omniscient and omnipresent, and should also be able to time travel.

So anything happening to The Enterprise, his favorite toy, OR his favorite creation.. Q should ALWAYS be aware of. He should also be aware of the future of what happens and all of the past that has happened, and be able to go to any point in time to prevent or change something, or he is not omnipotent.

This means that EVERY single episode, where there's ANY kind of 'impossible situation', COULD have either been created by Q, or should be preventable by Q or at the very least, Q should be able to help and solve the whole thing for them.

In fact, the mere existence of Q renders The Enterprise useless - what's the point of physically traveling all over the place, when Q could just upload the mysteries of the Universe into everyone's brain and computers, and everyone could just instantly know everything Q wants them to know?

[–] avortac4 (3751) 9 months ago

What's the point of exploration and adventure, when Q has alredy been there, and thus, there is nothing new to discover?

I mean, if there WAS something amazing, Q would probably have mentioned it or told people about it. Q is just someone watching someone watch a movie.. giggling in the corner, trying so very hard not to spoil the plot.

Q has already seen the movie called 'reality and cultivation', so he could warn Picard and his crew of anything and everything, he could cancel any mistake they happen to make, so he's also a kind of safety net that renders any threat harmless, he could dispose of The Borg completely, so he must have a reason for keeping it around, and so on.

When you think about it, Q REALLY spoils and ruins this whole show, that could have been amazing.. but realizing Q has alredy been everywhere and done everything.. it becomes a bit hard to get excited about any new discovery. It also makes you think ALL OF THE SHOW could be just Q's creation, Q's dream or Q's ANYTHING...

This show begins and ends with Q, and reveals the lack of understanding how much omnipotence can spoil things, and how omnipotence is supposed to work.. how is Quinan ever any kind of threat to Q? Why does Q just TALK about disposing of her instead of actually doing it?

Almost nothing makes sense when you realize the implications of Q and his supposed omnipotence.