No money, who does all the jobs that suck ?
So people no longer work for profit, who cleans the toilets when a drunk misses his aim ? One example of hundreds.
shareI would imagine that somehow it's done by robots or there are "smart bathrooms" that are self-cleaning. But yeah, the whole concept of "There's no money and we all live in this utopian 24th century paradise" is a stupid one. I like Star Trek but the whole concept that somehow humanity is good and noble and won't have any conflicts with one another is impossible in our own human nature.
shareYeah, I'm a Star Trek fan from waaay back. Gene Roddenberry had a good concept for the show, but in this instance he got it bass-ackwards!
Next Gen liked to portrays humans as so "good and noble" because technology and science freed Earth from hunger and disease. Picard says in one episode, "We have grown out of our infancy." Not bloody likely. A nice dream, but it will never happen.
Having a lot of stuff doesn't make humans better people. If it did, then how do you explain white collar crime? Ya got people who don't want for anything, they have lots of money, cars, boats, houses, etc. and STILL they embezzle from their companies.
No amount of "stuff" will change humanity's sinful nature and make us good. But Roddenberry was a secular humanist of the highest order. His "god" was science and technology.
It's set 300 plus years from now, not now. How many people do you think said black people were good for nothing but being slaves? Blacks and whites sharing drinking fountain was a drastic though even 50 years ago. Things might not be great, but it's far cry from 300 plus years ago.
Times change, people change, ethics change, pretty much everything changes. Maybe 300 and a bit years is a bit of stretch, but never? Sorry, anything is possible given enough time.
Slavery didn't end in the USA out of the "goodness of people's hearts". Sure a lot of people were against it, but the country didn't exactly open its arms to the newly freed slaves. Slavery has been going on in all parts of the globe for thousands of years. It was outlawed in some African countries in the late 20th century. There's still a lot of human trafficking going on around the world, like in the Middle East.
I don't see Sharia law being outlawed any time soon. Many people still treat each other pretty crappy if they can get away with it. It is part of our sinful human nature which will never change except with God's help, not technology.
Think back to Khan in Space Seed. He was disappointed in Kirk and called him inferior. He said , "Oh there has been technological advancement. But how little man has changed."
But even Khan got it wrong. He had super strength and super intellect, but it did not make HIM a "better human being." When push came to shove, he indulged his own selfih desires to rule and conquer.
Times do change in a lot of ways, I grant you that. Some customs change. Ideas change. But Ecclesiastes 1:9- "There is nothing new under the sun".
I still say Roddenberry got is bass-ackwards because he had a misplaced faith in the "goodness" of humanity, thinking that technology and more "stuff" would make humans better people. Nope.
A person from the Middle Ages brought to the 21st century. .. He has a one room hut with no heat,no doctors, no dentists. You get appendicitis? adios! A cavity? Ouch. You walked to get a bucket of water, no plumbing. No variety of foods. No fresh fruit in the winter. No entertainment. No lights at night, etc.
He sees the modern paradise of today. Clean running water, lights and heat at your fingertips, a variety of food, medicine, entertainment, transportation. And he would wonder why humans STILL go to war and treat each other like sh#t. Sinful human nature, it won't change in 300 or 3000 years.
doesnt matter how change came about. It happened and that's the point. You can't see past today because the world is full of shitty people. Doesn't mean that's the it always be. My pint wasn't that slavery ended because everybody suddenly thought it was bad. My point was that people couldn't see a time when it wouldn't be the reality, just like you can see a time when people won't be mostly assholes.
I'm not saying it will happen, or that it's even probable. What I am saying is that it's possible.
Oh yes, a lot of things are possible. Humanity HAS grown up in a lot of ways. I get furious when I see that old Honeymooners episode where Ralph is laid off and Alice takes a job in an office.
She has to tell her boss that she's single because "they don't believe in hiring married women. It's an office rule." aaarrgh!
The old fairy tale of Hansel and Gretel was based on the great famine in medieval times in Europe. Many desperate families abandoned children because they could not feed them.
I sure don't know what the world will be like in the future. My problem is mostly with Roddenberry's idea that people will be nicer and all get along just because everyone has enough stuff! He takes it to an extreme degree. Humans are simply not wired to get along without any conflicts. I think he was misrepresenting human nature.
We've all been breaking the ten commandments with regularity ever since Moses got the first copy! Ending hunger and disease won't stop that. People will just find new ways to be mean to each other. Not that I think everyone is an a@@hole, at least not all the time!! ha
Oh I see, that's my bad. I didn't realise you were saying "just because they have enough stuff". In that I whole heartily agree, Roddenberry was obviously hitting the peace pipe pretty hard when he came up with that one lol.
shareThe problem with your reasoning is that you miss that in the last 100 years, well - ~120, we have made more advances in science and technology than man has done since the invention of the wheel and in fifty years we probably have made more advances than in the last 120. Once we break the quantum code the proverbial faeces will hit the fan.
In 300 years, we will have automated many of the menial jobs we have today. We already have Roombas and lawnmovers that need no attention.
The hole thing puzzles me. In the 90s I joined the army for decent pay and other benefits of Military life, How ever in the future the choices are red shirt (Guard Duty/possible death/Being dragged out of bed to sort out a drunk Klingon)or easy days playing golf staying healthy and doing what ever I want when I want in comfort, No way would I choose Red shirt.
shareFor me, "doing whatever I want" would be to boldly go where no man has gone before. Maybe I'll have to sort a drunk Klingon or maybe I will seduce beautiful space babes, or maybe I'll get to make First Contact. But dying is something neither of us will escape.
shareYou make a good point.
shareOk good point made but there are other jobs that suck like being a waiter in ten forward, Dishing out drinks is a hard job that can be tedious and involve dealing with sometimes difficult rude people. Quark in DS9 did it for money and he was a people person his staff lived in a society that required money on enterprise you got Jack.
shareOn Enterprise, you don't need anything. Replicators, you know. And I would be totally fine with tending bar in Ten Forward. The reward would instead of money be that I was travelling through fucking space and meeting aliens.
shareWow sorry dude.
shareI'm not sorry so why should you be? Should I feel sorry because it's my dream to meet aliens?
shareYou're right-- with holodecks and replicators everywhere, the real adventures would probably be in doing things we consider mundane today.
shareCould you not meet aliens as a tourist ? Why be a servant to the elites, (unpaid labour could be seen as slavery) Or is the tourism trade dead as no one has the will to work as a operator and all ship now are either cargo or federation and the only way to visit other worlds is to work on those ships doing service jobs like waiting staff ?And if you go to another world that still uses currency how do you eat and drink ? Suppose you could beam down with a packed lunch.
In some episodes they go to risa think it's called that anyway a pleasure planet full of hedonism. If I need no money to live a life of sexual deviancy with hot women from around the galaxy and pleasure in leisure the enterprise can drop my ass off.
Once again, why would I need money? Almost anything I wanted could be replicated. And it's not just the meeting aliens things, it's First Contact and to crew a ship of exploration.
I'm not sure what I would do on a planet that uses currency but I would probably be in the company of other crew members so I'd put my trust in my senior officers. And if I were an senior officer, I'm pretty sure they have courses for that stuff in the Academy.
Well, a life of hedonism would still be business as usual after a while. There's more to life then fucking all day, everyday.
But back to the original question why do the jobs that suck when you could achieve all those things (not first contact) by not working a job that sucks. Being crew member would not suck. Replicating an item would kill the antique industry as real antiques would either be given or inherited or stolen ( had to throw that in, it just popped in my head I deal in antique military collectibles as a side line)
Fucking all day and leisure activities plus torisum would not get as boring as doing a thankless hard job. My point being all those things could be achieved without grafting a thankless job.
Thank you all for the input in this conversation I miss IMDB boards.
Still, things that you would call "sucky jobs", like tending bar, isn't considered sucky for everyone. And great job looking down at the guy pouring your beer.
You see things with your feet planted in our day and age but I try to see it from the eyes of someone in the day and age of ST.
And I think it's a pretty good thing that "stuff" will somewhat lose their value beyond what their meant for. Sucky for your line of work so I understand why you don't like it.
That's your opinion. I would grow tired of even the best sex, sooner or later.
[quotee]It's set 300 plus years from now, not now. How many people do you think said black people were good for nothing but being slaves? Blacks and whites sharing drinking fountain was a drastic though even 50 years ago. Things might not be great, but it's far cry from 300 plus years ago. [/quote]
Inappropriate analygy. Blacks were free before slavery and after. But the concept of money hasn't changed for thousands of years. Even communism has the concept of money. As long as society has a small number of freeloaders the concept of equal pay and money in general isn't going away. Our system of economics would fall apart .
Even star trek didn't seem to agree with itself. In a future with out money to keep people honest would the captain really have his own yacht and ready room compared to the bunk beds of the rest of the non senior crew?
As soon as you said the word "sin" I knew I was dealing with a Christian MORON. Fuck off. Your stupid Bible words mean nothing to me.
You're just the type of human that Satan LOVES! Indulge in your sins, talk to strangers like a disrespectful pig, believe that there IS essentially no right and wrong.
Of course "Bible words" mean nothing to you!! Doubtful any other words do either. People who blather hateful nonsense are generally uneducated or borderline illiterate anyway.
I however, won't "F@#@ off". I'll be with my Savior in Paradise someday. You on the other hand better pack summer clothes and sunscreen if you don't mend your foolish ways. Cos' where you're headed, it's mighty HOT!
I feelsorryfor you.
I believe in right and wrong, and I don't need any god or so-called "holy book" to tell me so.
I think the Bible is nonsense, being written as it was by desert-dwellers thousands of years ago with a more primitive and superstitious and violent view of society.
I look forward to being in the "HOT" place, as Heaven sounds exceedingly dull and boring.
I feel sorry for YOU, believing in fairy tales.
Its not so much a sinful nature the show skips over its the whole notion that humanity won't be competative in the future. The captains state room was huge comprared to the senior staffs and the senior staff was of course bigger then the rest of the crew quarters. Just on this alone I call BS when they claim the federation has no concept of money, and that even one just works for the betterment of mankind. I think every one in the future will become bums if we all earn equal resources.
Next Gen liked to portrays humans as so "good and noble" because technology and science freed Earth from hunger and disease. Picard says in one episode, "We have grown out of our infancy." Not bloody likely. A nice dream, but it will never happen.
Having a lot of stuff doesn't make humans better people. If it did, then how do you explain white collar crime? Ya got people who don't want for anything, they have lots of money, cars, boats, houses, etc. and STILL they embezzle from their companies.
Star Trek reality still has bad people, corruption, greed, and war. share
Frogarama, well yes I agree about that! Gene Roddenberry just seemed to have some idea that human nature would change when people had enough "stuff".
I used to belong to several ST fan clubs and we used to discuss Trek (ad nauseum, lol).
It was pointed out to gene Roddenberry that there HAD to be some conflict in order to have good drama, hence the corruption, greed and war. It would have been a pretty boring show if everyone got along all the time!
Technology gets better, but people don't.
I am reminded of what Khan said to Captain Kirk when he revived him. He was disappointed in the 23rd century.
"Oh there has been technological advancement. But how little man himself has changed."
Ironic because Khan, though genetically gifted, was one of the most immoral, self serving human beings ever.