MovieChat Forums > Star Trek: The Next Generation (1987) Discussion > Okay one of you smart people, how can th...

Okay one of you smart people, how can they see ships?


I noticed this last night,
In the episode, Genesis, Picard and Data come upon the ship which is adrift, all the lights are off etc.
But not just this episode but all of the episodes, how can they see a ship on the visual screen at all?
There's no light in space right?
I remember in the Army on some dumb, crap "out in the night" crap, but away from the city in the woods, just star light, you would literally run into each other.
How the hell can we see the ship in the opening credits??!!!! WTH๐Ÿ˜ก

I just wondered because in my story the kids are on a space station and they watch some ships disembark etc.
After I thought about it, it would be too dark to see much if anything.๐Ÿ˜Ÿ Poor kids.....
No world order that elevates one nation or group of people over another will succeed

reply

It's called suspension of disbelieve Nak plus (although cheap) a black screen when anything in space is happening is pretty boring.Plus as shown in TMP a starship is lit by many bright(and probably enormous)lights.

reply

I think I'm just sad now because it dawned on me that you wouldn't be able to see the ships.
It looks so cool in the beginning credits!
But now I know it's fake๐Ÿ˜Ÿ๐Ÿ˜Ÿ๐Ÿ˜Ÿ๐Ÿ˜ข๐Ÿ˜ข
They don't show lights shining on it from the outside and that wouldn't even make sense:
Like they leave the front porch light on?
The lights from the Windows wouldn't show the ship.
I'm so sad.๎‚…

No world order that elevates one nation or group of people over another will succeed

reply

Step 1: Detect ship using radar, emergency beacon signal, residual energy signature, whatever.

Step 2: Pinpoint ship location using triangulation.

Step 3: Light ship up with a giant spotlight.

Optional step 4: Ask ship how many lights it sees.

reply

There are four lights.
One on each nacell and one on the bridge and one in the Captain's ready room.
The last one is my favorite๐Ÿ˜ˆ

No world order that elevates one nation or group of people over another will succeed

reply

You can see satellites and whatnot, can't you?

RIP Gene Wilder. RIP Barbara Hale. You were great in Perry Mason. RIP William Christopher.

reply

You might be able to see parts like flat surfaces or certain edges that might reflect ambient light, but I don't think you could see the entire thing.
Maybe you could if it was in full sunlight. But on the show, they are always in Deep space. Plus, in the opening credits not only are they In deep space they are moving at warp 8. (Really, I did the math)((okay I didn't really do the math as to how fast they are moving in the opening credits, but someone out there has and you can search it and find it))

No world order that elevates one nation or group of people over another will succeed

reply

But on the show, they are always in Deep space.

not really. they travel from star system to star system. most of the bits of them flying between stars is cut for time.

"He's dusted, busted and disgusted, but he's ok"

reply

I always dismissed this as "they're always close to a local star which provides the light source".

Why are you here if you haven't seen the movie yet?

reply

Augmented viewing experience, similar to how most aliens speak English even amongst themselves rather than a native tongue due to the universal translator.

We're not seeing space as it actually is, but rather space as depicted using alternative detection methods and/or light correction. Like how night-vision makes things brighter than they really are.

All those beautiful NASA images of nebulas and such? They don't really look like that. What astronomers have done is taken an isolated portion of the spectrum and colorized it to make easier to read by human eyes. The colors may all be very similar shades of infrared, but one band is colored blue, another green, another red, etc, and we get pretty pictures that scientists can interpret.

Course, it depends how close to a star you are. If you're close, you get sunlight and can probably see things more easily, if not close, yeah, can't see anything. With a station, though, I could easily see them having spotlights to light the ship and station hulls for reference during docking/exterior maintenance.

That's what humans do - we adapt the environment so we can function in it. No light? Bring our own or find other ways to see.

Ultimately, though, it's all a narrative conceit.

Jake Meridius Conhale, at your service!
"Old Man" of the BSG (RDM) boards.

reply

Course, it depends how close to a star you are. If you're close, you get sunlight and can probably see things more easily, if not close, yeah, can't see anything. With a station, though, I could easily see them having spotlights to light the ship and station hulls for reference during docking/exterior maintenance.

---------
I thought of the sun part. But it seems like images that we do get from space shows darkness.
Without the disbursment and reflection of the sunlight,from out atmosphere, it's not as bright.

I thought about possible lighting on a space station. Maybe. But it seems like most stuff would before using sensors.

Gee, I wish I had paid more attention in school.
No world order that elevates one nation or group of people over another will succeed

reply

Turn off you computer monitor and what do you see?

A curved glass surface if it is really old. Or a dull flat surface.

Then turn it on. When I go to bed at night I turn off my computer and then turn off the light. And my computer screen glows blue and blank for a few minutes before shutting off so I use the light from it to see as I go to bed and get under the covers. In fact the light from the computer screen is too bright to fall asleep by until it shuts off after a few minutes to save energy.

Once I read the novel Mission to the Stars or the Mixed Men (1952) by A.E. van Vogt in which the mighty space battleship Star Cluster has a lot of advanced features that the Enterprise would envy. And a comparatively minor technology made a big impression on me.

In one scene the grand captain of the Star Cluster looks at herself in a mirror in her quarters, then uses a control to turn the mirror surface into a view screen. And I always wondered how a mirror surface could turn into the equivalent of a television screen.

1) Maybe the mirror surface and the view screen surface are two separate surfaces and one slides in front of the other when the function is changed.

2) Maybe there are one or more video cameras mounted by the screen and when it is in mirror mode they film what is in front of them and display it on the screen.

3) I once read about a display technology that has millions of tiny particles suspended in the screen. These microscopic particles are long and narrow. A magnetic field changes their orientation. When the particles within a pixel have their long sides facing out they block what is behind them. When the particles within a pixel have their narrow sides facing out the different colored background behind them is visible. And so an image is formed from millions of pixels.

And maybe the same process is used in the outer layer of the grand captain's view screen. Maybe it has millions of long narrow microscopic particles that are highly reflective. Maybe when the narrow ends of the particles are facing outwards she can see around them to the viewscreen behind them, and when the long sides of the particles are facing outwards they make a mirror surface.

Another story by A.E. Van Vogt "A Can of Paint" (1944) involved a super advanced type of paint that glowed, came in all colors, and spread itself.

I have read speculation about intelligent paint that would have tiny nanobots in it that could respond to instructions.

Present day advanced paint include a transparent varnish that turns pink icy conditions that could be used to warn drivers about ice on the road.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13592-intelligent-paint-turns-roads-pink-in-icy-conditions/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHBqVAxp7T8

Someday advanced paint like surface coatings should be developed that will be like paint on computer screens or televisions. You will be able to paint on a surface and send signals to the surface to change it's reflectivity, color, and brightness in various areas and make it display any image.

And if starships are painted with such paints it would be easy to increase how much light a portion of the surface reflects or emits. Note that the starship Yamato appeared in 2 episodes of TNG with 2 different registry numbers. If it was painted with some futuristic intelligent paint it would be easy to switch from one registry number to another at the press of button or program it to periodically switch the number.

It is natural to assume that starship hulls don't glow with their own light, but considering all the advances in display technology in our lifetimes, it is perfectly possible that the surface of a starsip is one vast computer display that can emit light and make itself visible even in the depths of interstellar space.

And what about the "stars" seen streaking by when starships are at warp speeds? calculations show that starships can't travel fast enought for that effect. Therefore some speculate that the streaks are tiny particles of space dust that are heated up and glow from the warp field of a starship. If there are enough tiny glowing dust particles around a starship it might be illuminated as much as in Star Trek.

And possibly the strange physics of a warp field might cause photons of light to appear around a starship, possibly enough to illuminate it.

reply

Babylon 5, as classic as it is, certainly went overboard in the depiction of space nebulae, as in this clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-uhi_qIgSU Just look how bright it all is! We never see that sort of thing frequently in Star Trek!

Why are you here if you haven't seen the movie yet?

reply

Starship porn is absolutely essential to Star Trek, especially when CGI was in its infancy back then.

You could nitpick over how close each ship is, and how brightly lit they are, in the vastness of deep space, not to mention that these ships always are orientated the same way to one another, but it wouldn't do any good. Even if you were to tell the SFX department and the director and producers all of that, they'd ignore you (after throwing you out of the studio) because realism is not really the goal in film, television, or even literature.

The goal of all fiction is to tell a story.

What you are seeing here with the ships being shown as they are is part of what is known as the Language of Cinema. They've only got so much time to tell the story, and film/television has an added advantage that they have the power to show what's going on rather than tell it through exposition and narrative. That's the reason why if a ship is within 200,000 miles of the Enterprise, they'll have a subsequent shot of the ship looking as though it's within a half-mile of her. They can't just show the Enterprise alone in space with a bright but tiny dot out in space somewhere. You might understand there's another ship out there, but a lot of other people would be confused.

Further, television, especially, has to cater to all kinds of people as much as they can, and they often have to portray shows in such a way that can be understood by folks with a College (at the low end of the educational spectrum) to 9th grade educational level for primetime shows. Producers are always wary of presenting concepts too arcane for the general viewing audience.

reply

College (at the low end of the educational spectrum) to 9th grade educational level for primetime shows. Producers are always wary of presenting concepts too arcane for the general viewing audience.

---------/
Oh, well that's me!!!๐Ÿ˜€๐Ÿ˜€๐Ÿ˜Ÿ๐Ÿ˜Ÿ๐Ÿ˜Ÿ
I don't watch too much television any more.
Right now the only show I watch is Grimm. It's geared towards 11th graders.๐Ÿ˜•

No world order that elevates one nation or group of people over another will succeed

reply

I can't actually believe this type of question is being asked........ ๐Ÿ˜ž

reply

It is peculiar, Frosted. Especially by Nak, who is usually like me.

RIP Gene Wilder. RIP Barbara Hale. You were great in Perry Mason. RIP William Christopher.

reply

But it's for my story.
And I was having the kids and people look out the windows of the space station.
But then it occurred to me that without light, how the hell would they be able to see the ships docking or anything really
Other than if there was docking lights.
But even then, if the ship was huge, only the dock area would most likely be lit, so you still couldn't see anything.

May be I can have the space station near to something that gives off light.....,
But since I never paid attention in school, I don't even know what that could be๐Ÿค”
Possibly reflected light from a moon???๐Ÿค”
No world order that elevates one nation or group of people over another will succeed

reply

How the hell can we see the ship in the opening credits??!!!! WTH


The same way we can hear it even though space is a vacuum.

I have a brain and good taste, so no, I'm not part of the target demographic.๎€ญ

reply

have a brain and good taste, so no, I'm not part of the target demographic

Well I have bad taste and my shoe size is the same as my IQ........
๐Ÿ˜ฅ
No world order that elevates one nation or group of people over another will succeed

reply

I doubt that very much.

I have a brain and good taste, so no, I'm not part of the target demographic.๎€ญ

reply

That's why they made the ENTERPRISE self illuminate in THE MOTION PICTURE. They would be out of the solar system. The ENTERPRISE D didn't have that except in the final episode of STAR TREK ENTERPRISE. I'd say the scanners and viewscreen maybe "created" the visible object. Otherwise there was a lot of ambient light from stars.

reply

What are we gonna do without you, Mem? Nice knowing you, buddy.

RIP Gene Wilder. RIP Barbara Hale. You were great in Perry Mason. RIP William Christopher.

reply

Yeah...it's the end of an era. I liked most of the people on here. I think it sucks that they're getting rid of it because it lets people know what people really think of movies as well as TV shows.

reply

We've both been here about the same time. Sad day indeed.

RIP Gene Wilder. RIP Barbara Hale. You were great in Perry Mason. RIP William Christopher.

reply

I'm going to miss it.

reply

So will I Mem and the all the conversations I had on this board this sucks.

reply