Was Iceman partly responsible for Goose dying. It seemed that Iceman was selfish trying to get that plane when he was too close for the shot, but he wanted to win top gun so bad. Maverick had the clear shot but Iceman wanted to deny him. So Iceman finally moves off and thats when Maverick flys into his jetwash and loses control. Goose then dies hiting his head while trying to eject.
shareWas Iceman partly responsible for Goose dying.IMO, partly or wholly and from a fictional perspective I presume that it wasn't. I think it was Maverick's ego that got Goose killed, or in a situation to be killed. Near the end, and the beginning of a wonderful bromance between Iceman and Maverick was touching tho.
I agree with the OP. Iceman was to blame.
shareNot massively, no.
The original F14 was quite prone to compressor stalls, thanks to a poor combination of airframe and engine (the latter was required to be used due to existing contracts, I believe). After a series of accidents, recovery and prevention measures were developed, but it could be argued that the film may have taken place before that all came about. They later put a different engine in anyway.
Meanwhile, Ice had to pull away, so Mav was arguably too close and in the wrong position... but the stall was by no means a guaranteed incident either. Mav should have been able to adopt the best available position to take out his target and in most other planes, this wouldn't have been a problem.
As is, the tribunal decided Mav was not to blame and alleviated him of all responsibility. If Ice was even suspected of blame, he'd have been off the course and hauled in faster than he could don his sunglasses...
Ultimately, it was a combination of factors that contributed, for none of which any pilot could realistically be held accountable.
Excellent response. Thank you!
shareThe Truth About the F-14 and Goose’s Death
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwS1k8LKxJg
Details about the flight characteristics of the F-14 Tomcat and whether the sequences in the movie “Top Gun” were at all accurate.share
Was Iceman partly responsible for Goose dying.No. Maverick was too aggressive. Women don't like that. share
I agree he had the shot. Iceman should took aim and took the win. Maverick wouldn't have been to do anything then, but Ice was screwing around dangerously.
shareLet's ask goose...talk to me goose. Nope, goose says no...Ice wasn't at all responsibile for his death. It was the manufacturer of the eject seat..McDonnell douglas
shareLet's ask goose...talk to me goose. Nope, goose says no...Ice wasn't at all responsibile for his death. It was the manufacturer of the eject seat..McDonnell douglas
Grumman is responsible then, not MD, they built the f4 not the tomcat.
http://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/persian-cats-9242012/
In any event ice wasn't the fault
I'd never heard that one. I'm not familiar though with the A model cat. The newer model seat actually yanks you back tight in the seat before it launches. If the old one had the same system and it failed, I do not know. The biggest issues I saw were asymmetric thrust, maybe waiting a little too late to punch out, and the canopy failing to jettison properly. Change any of those 3, and goose doesn't hit the water a dead duck. Change the last, and the other two could go to hell and still the crew ends ok. The canopy "floated" above the cockpit, and slamming into it is what appeared to break goose's neck.
So MD made the A models' ejection seat? I would've guessed it was a Martin-baker piece also. I'm getting old...
As far as ice being responsible, staying in the world of fiction, one could say his dicking around and not firing was the problem. But in reality, ice was the section lead at that time, so maverick's responsibility was not to be trying to engage, but to be cover for ice. Whether or not ice cut him off to take the lead is immaterial. In a true section, it is passed back and forth as dictated by the situation. So maverick jockeying for the shot was WAAAAAAY out of line. Not only that, it would be Mavericks responsibility to maintain formation distance and prevent a mid-air. So supposedly, the maneuver that caused the engine to stall would be Maverick's fault, not Ice's. But it's such a dynamic thing that you can't really say maverick was totally negligent. The exact same scenario could occur 50 times and never stall. But if maverick followed the protocol to the letter, the scenario wouldn't have occurred in the first place. So in fiction, one could say ice was somewhat responsible. In reality, maverick holds the most responsibility.
I'd like to put the blame on whomever's responsible for not inspecting the faulty ejection seat.
I don't know too much about jets, but the U.S. Navy should've hired outside contractors to double-check for mechanical failures. Then again, it was the 1980s, so perhaps things ran a little differently back then.
Ice seemed genuinely sorry in the scene where he expressed his condolences to Maverick in the locker room. I know the guy can be an arrogant prick at times, but deep down I believe he would've felt the same if it was his wingman.
Maybe this is something they'll address in the sequel.
I'd like to put the blame on whomever's responsible for not inspecting the faulty ejection seat.
Originally, Goose's death was planned to have occurred due to a ramp strike accident during an aircraft carrier approach. The U.S. Navy balked at that idea, so the filmmakers had to come up with an alternative. An F-14A ejection seat hitting the canopy during an ejection sequence was a realistic danger with the F-14A when involved in a flat spin. The Pratt & Whitney powered F-14A was susceptible to flameouts which could induce very nasty flat spins. When an ejection is triggered by either the RIO or the pilot, the canopy fires first, then the RIO's ejection seat fires, then the pilot's seat fires... in that sequence. Those 3 events are programmed to occur .4 to .7 seconds apart. In most flight regimes, the canopy will be long gone before the RIO's seat fires. However, a low pressure phenomena can form during a flat spin that causes the canopy to hover momentarily just above the cockpit for several extra milliseconds. For this reason, F-14 crews were trained to manually jettison the canopy FIRST, and THEN eject, IF they were caught in a flat spin. This extra step was deemed necessary, to give the canopy an extra half-second or more to eventually get sucked out of any low pressure area that forms above the cockpit during a flat spin event. Manually jettisoning the canopy first was important only if the crew members recognized that they were in a flat spin. Since a real F-14 naval aviator and RIO served as technical advisors for some of the cockpit and radio communication dialog, they likely suggested that line you hear Maverick say to Goose just before they eject: Mav says something like, "Watch the canopy" -or- "Punch the canopy." But the canopy was NOT jettisoned manually before the the ejection was triggered. Goose instinctively reached up and pulled the overhead ejection loop(s) which automatically jettisons the canopy, then his seat, then Mav's seat in the delayed time sequence detailed above... and you saw the result.
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Thanks for the addition tech info.
https://screenrant.com/top-gun-goose-death-blame-iceman-not-maverick/
As the top two trainees from their TOPGUN batch, Maverick and Iceman with their respective RIOs went into the tandem training session motivated to come out as the winner. The exercise put them on the same team against their superiors, but points were earned individually. Both eventually got in the position to shoot LCDR Rick "Jester" Heatherly (Michael Ironside) giving them a shot at securing victory for the trainees. While Iceman got in front of Maverick and Goose, he couldn't get a clean shot. He was repeatedly asked to move out of the way so Maverick can take over, but he stubbornly stayed, trying desperately to take down Jester and prevent his direct competitor to score points over him. No matter how hard he tried, however, Iceman just couldn't get a lock on Jester's plane, forcing him to ultimately break off. Unfortunately, by the time Iceman got out of the way, it was too late; Maverick was too close on his tail, causing him to fly directly through the jet wash. This resulted in his aircraft suffering a flameout of both engines ending in a fatal flat spin. While Maverick was able to safely eject, Goose didn't; he hit the canopy on his way out with the intense impact causing his death.share
Had Iceman given Maverick the opening when he was first asked to, the whole accident would've been prevented. Aside from the tragedy caused by his stubbornness, Iceman's actions also highlighted how individualistic he is — something that Maverick got in trouble for in their previous exercise after abandoning his wingman, Rick "Hollywood" Neven (Whip Hubley) to chase CDR Mike "Viper" Metcalf (Tom Skerritt) on his own. Iceman should've been reprimanded for this — at the very least, he should've been scolded or had his points reduced, otherwise, he should've also been investigated like Maverick.
Except that Iceman got into position to grab the victory first, and he did ultimately tell Mav he was breaking off persuit and the target was Mav's to take.
So yes, if Iceman pulled off sooner (why would he?) or didn't pull off at all, Goose would still be alive.
From what I saw, Mav was too close to Iceman - but I'm not a fighter pilot..
I would place the blame on both of them, they were both too aggressive and forgot that ultimately it was just a game and are on the same side.
sharePeople who will blame Iceman will say that he pushed into a bad position because he didn't want Maverick to get the shot. People who will instead, blame Maverick will say that instead of backing off, he kept pressure on Iceman to move.
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Also, Iceman was still in position to get the shot given more time, but he gave in to Mav's request to get out of the line of sight because Mav did actually had a better shot, just as he would have done in a combat situation. Since Ice was a "fly by the book" pilot, he pulled off to give Mav shot. If Ice stayed in, he probably would have gotten the kill eventually and Goose would still be alive.