Depressing - Salvador (1986) Discussion

[–] becker96 20 years ago

Agree. This is one of the more depressing films. Ranks up there with Schindler's List and Tears of the Sun.

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[–] AlbinoBadBob 20 years ago

I agree entirely.I watched it back in '88 I think,on the strength of Platoon and Wall Street,(not the most uplifting movies ever shot,)this is probably better than either but was so relentlessly grim I couldn't sleep afterwards.I've never watched it again,one to see but probably only once.

Thats it? Thats his power? He's mysterious?

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[–] jose_rauda 20 years ago

Yes,after watching the movie,the situation that happend in el salvador does seem to be depressing.And doesn't it make you wonder if chris_t cryed by just watching a movie,how much harder could it have been for the people who lived all that ordeal to hold back there tears?It really is a sad film,it's really sad that our government tried to hide all this from us while they sent our troops to train elsalvador's troops on how to tortue innocent women and children(either it be execution style killings of poor terrified children or decapatations of babies who belonged to"suspected guerillas")<<<it hurts to know US troops had a part in those TRUE events.This movie helped me realize in what type of complicated world my parents came from(they immigrated from El Salvador 10 yrs after war began),a world that my life can never apprehend,which makes me realize more & more how strong they truly are,not only becuz they were able to go on and live day 2 day the true-life version of this movie,but to actually survive it.

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[–] Alien_Latino 20 years ago

Jose, I take it that you are salvadoran, well I am too, but please tell these people the ENTIRE truth, not just your (left-wing) side of the story.

The government/army killed people, yes, people that were pro-communist or "helpers" of the guerrillas. It was a rarity that truly innocent people were killed at the hands of the army.

On the other side of the coin, the communist guerrillas DID TRULY killed innocent people. I remember them killing teachers, civil servants and electrical workers. I also remember them killing interurban bus drivers for the crime of trasporting people to their factories. So please don't start with me about the sanctity of those criminals (guerrillas), they killed 2 uncles of mine for the sole reason that they were land owners, what fault did they have in that? All the good these criminals did was destroy the country and make the intelligent elite flee, set back the country 20 years. Before 1979 we were the most industrialized country in Central America, even ahead of Costa Rica, now we are the 3rd most industrialized thanks to the criminal FMLN.

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[–] joshea00 20 years ago

Here is an overview of Salvadoran society today - fourteen or so extended families, the "catorce" or the "elites" as they are referred to (and to think that being called an "elite" is an insult in the U.S.!) control about 70% of all of the wealth in the country with a small class of other wealthy, well connected landowners and business men controlling an additional 15%. The hardly-existent myth of a middle class and the vast underclass, representing about 90% of the population, are forced to struggle over the scraps. Judging by ALIEN LATINO's political views and comments about his family, it is clear that he comes from one of the first two groups.

The fact is, they delude themselves, or are deluded by their parents, by this myth that the victims "had it coming to them". Perhaps it helps them sleep at night, or helps them avoid the harsh stares of people living in corregated huts by the road as they pass by in their Mercedes on the way to eat sushi in the posh Zona Rosa. The fact is, innocent people were killed, the majority by the government or by death squads funded by these same wealthy families and the CIA.

Alien's comment that these victims were not "truly innocent" because they might have been left leaning in their views or sold food to the guerrilla is nonsense in itself, since the wholesale massacre of a person and his family is never justified no matter what his views. And in comparison to the Ghengis Khan doctrine followed by the ultra right wing government, any sane person with an ethical concern for others could be labeled a "communist" and excecuted.

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[–] joshea00 20 years ago

In fact, even those trying to follow the word of Jesus in this supposedly ultra catholic country were executed, as is the case of Archbishop Romero and the four nuns, as well as countless others. It is safe to say that had Jesus Christ himself gone strolling into El Salvador in the early 80's with his long hair, beard, and sandles, saying such things as "The last shall be first" and "the meek shall inherit the earth", he would have been labeled a communist and met a fate equally horrible to that he suffered on the cross.

Unfortunately, the type of people who join death squads and military dictatorships are often sociopaths to begin with, so many times their victims were killed in the name of "the struggle", when in fact there was a personal vengence at stake, or a woman, or above all, business interests and profit.

The guerilla were not innocent either, and many innocents found themselves in a win win situation, accused from both sides of supporting the other, but the VAST majority of innocents were murdered by the military and the death squads (hence, their name!). In neighboring Guatemala, where a similiar struggle took place, a UN study revealed that about 95% of atrocities against civilians were committed by the military and paramilitary, and only 5% by the guerrilla. That is how the military defeated them- by killing all of their family, friends, and anyone that could possibly ever be their friends. I suspect that the proportion was similiar in El Salvador.

The bottom line is that the society was sick to begin with, or else the FMLN never would have come to be. Perhaps you were "more industrialized" before the war, but clearly the vast majority of the people were so desperate and dyingfrom poverty that such an uprisingwas permitted in the first place. Therefore, the roots lie in the corrupt oligarchy supported by attitudes such as ALIEN's who refuse to look in the mirror and take responsibility for their country.

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[–] joshea00 20 years ago

I am not communist in the least, and disagree completely with the FMLN's politics, and imo El Salvador would be worse off today if they had won, (not to mention that the U.S. would have invaded or pulled another "contra" stunt like they did in Nicaragua) but at least they had conviction and more integrity in their beliefs than the corrupt, right wing ARENA party that murdered the archbishop. However, capitalism can only function as it does in the US when people have hope in the belief that hard work, intelligence, risk taking, and good ideas actually can result in success. In countries like El Salvador, poorly run businesses and businessmen who are not very smart make millions due to the lack of real competition, while the only welfare and social security is that which is lavished upon the oligarchy. Competition and the economy is hindered, and hope, that all important key to a healthy society, is stifled. In this sense, a poor rural salvadoran is no better off than the garbage collector in communist Russia - he knows what his fate will be and has no hope of changing it. And at least in communist Russia he could count on basic rations and housing to help his family survive, no matter how bleak. No wonder Cuba seems like a dream to these people.

Unfortunately, Salvador the movie may be a prelude to a much larger future struggle in central america if these "elites" like ALIEN and his family dont start paying dividends to the real shareholders of these countries, whose sweat equity has created massive amounts of wealth for others over the past four centuries.

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[–] Alien_Latino 20 years ago

First of all, why should we (civilicized salvadorans) bend our backs for people that do not want to better themselves and work hard as we did to live in decency?

That comment of yours about 14 families controlling 70% of the wealth was true but that was in the early 1970's, today there's a BIG middle class in El Salvador and you cannot count the ultra-rich with a mere 2-digit number. I also take offence at your comments about the ARENA party, a party which I'm a member since 1988. Numbers talk; ARENA was the party that took the country out of economic hardship and brought about peace. It's the first party in the country's history that is not corrupt and has been involved in a scam scandal (such as the FMLN which was charged with larceny for ripping off the government with a canadian waste management company). No other salvadoran government in history has built more roads and bridges than ARENA. Tell me why the people have voted them 4 consecutive times to power and I will tell you why they are good.

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[–] 20 years ago

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[–] bllrghtz 19 years ago

"The government/army killed people, yes, people that were pro-communist or "helpers" of the guerrillas. It was a rarity that truly innocent people were killed at the hands of the army."

^ This is COMPLETE nonsense. You should be ashamed. Absolutely indefensible.

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[–] zarathustra_777 20 years ago

Considering that Calderon Sol's grandfather was a poor car driver for hire, I would, in your stance, reconsider my views. Calderon Sol got to be president. Antonio Saca, our new president, came out of poverty, he was a sports narrator. Just there, 2 examples of people that progressed in El Salvador. Grupo Roble's founder (this is the richest family group of El Salvador) Luis Poma, was dirt poor in the 1950s. The Siman family, rich merchants now, sold clothes carried on their backs 2 generations ago. I could go on with examples such as these, so as far as the 14 families myth goes, its a bit black and white. Both sides commited atrocities, the FMLN can not claim higher moral ground. As far as ARENA goes, it is grossly misrepresented. Yes, there are some lowly scum in the far right, Dick Cheney would be the first, but until I lived in Nicaragua, I hadn't come to appreciate the contributions of the ARENA party to El Salvador. I'm glad there is a responsible, economically-minded party in power. Look at Nicaragua, as soon as the communists got to power they started dividing the country amongst themselves. Their right wing is equally corrupt, and there is no progress. Yes things are bad for the poor in El Salvador, but minimum wage is twice as high as Nicaragua.Yes, comparing EL Salvador to Sweden would show vast deficiencies, but one must remind oneself that conditions in these countries were set by the spaniards 500 years ago, and some recognition is in order for those who push for progress. The movie salvador is very black and white, which takes away from any awareness it could have raised amongst educated people.

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[–] 20 years ago

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[–] pink_eyeliner 19 years ago

Let me say that I am Salvadoran too and, excuse me, but I think you are full of *beep*

"It was a rarity that truly innocent people were killed at the hands of the army."

Ever heard of El Mozote? The brutal massacre in which AN ENTIRE TOWN, save ONE woman, was sytematically murdered? Where the army killed the men first, proceeded to shoot the women one by one, in front of their sons and daughters no less, and then burned the children alive? Just try an tell me they deserved to die.

Whatcha eating soldier? SPAAAM?
Mr. Smith Paddington Esquire III Jr...Ph.D.

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[–] rvrjose 19 years ago

*beep* arena puro fmln arena killed innocent people to remember roberto d arbissun or how ever that putos name is spelled he started arena and killed and tortured hella people thats who major max really was i heard he died of cancer in 1992 i hope he,s burning in hell with the rest of his arena facist

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[–] PSTerran 19 years ago

Not just El Salvador but all of Latin America has had to undergo the things that are shown in this film, to one extent or another. The color of the faces and the names of places may change, but this is a story that tugs at the emotional strings of the suffering and misery of Latin American countries. They've all been raped and pillaged by armies and businessmen more powerful and more well-armed than they could ever be. They is a very relative term there I admit, but one that serves the purpose of "conquered/poor/enslaved" vs "the conqueror/wealthy/theslavemaster".

Some blame the communists/marxists/guerillas/priests/labor unions/students/lay workers (blanket term would be subversives) for the Civil War in El Salvador. Others blame the CIA and the United States for supporting, supplying, training, and financing the right wing government and military.

You know what blame is like? It's like carrying a huge burlap sack that is too difficult to carry around at all times. It's a burden. I hear a lot of blame flying around in this post. It doesn't surprise me. There are, however, legitimate reasons for it. There is a lot of propaganda on both ends of the story and how it really went down. The truth of the matter is, in order to really get the true story, you have to do your own digging. Researching the subject matter and informing yourself will make you look less like you're spewing propaganda and more like you know what your talking about. When you play the blame game, it becomes about who can spew the most statistics or arguments about who was right or who was wrong. Who cares about any of that when you're six feet under the ground, certainly not the dead from this bloody civil war.

The film is depressing but as some of my fellow Salvatruchos have expressed here, it's what really happened. If you are Salvadorian and you or your parents had lived throught that or fleed from that, the movie really hits close to him. I cry a little when I watch it. Having grown up here, it shows me a nightmare of a life I would have had to live if my parents had not escaped the civil war to restart a life in the US with no money, no family, nothing. More than depressing, I find it stunning. Sometimes a bit of anger.

I hate to be a harbinger of bad news if this is your one and only source about the state of affairs in El Salvador, but after the war it got even worse. The truce was an empty to gesture to the end of the war, but the continuace of the repression and oligarchies of old. Sad to say that the film, as well as the war, did not reverse the trend that has always existed in El Salvador and the rest of Latin America. The poor get poorer, while the richer get richer and kill off as many people who try to change that. This is what this war was about and why so many failed revolutions and promises of change have failed in Latin America. Behind the interests in keeping the wealthy, dictatorial classes in Latin America in power, you'll find the U.S., the CIA, and most importantly the multinational companies that want their labor/resources, and the IMF/WorldBank (because of course indebting countries is the best way to keep them on a tight leash like Argentina and the economic crisis they had).

My last thoughts on this movie is that it should be taken as an appetizer, not a full meal, of the the really horrid things that have happened, that happen, and that will happen in Latin America if things remain in their present course.

The question rises: Is peace possible when unjust societies like the ones represented in El Salvador exist? When is enough, enough?

I favor no particular type of government to be honest. I don't think the capitalists or the communists have pinned it down yet in El Salvador. I believe the key is balance, and in no way is the society of past and present El Salvador balanced.

It's the melodrama of humanity that I see in this film. The burning one word question that always comes up for me is "WHY?". You gotta look for that answer on your own, and the results are usually less than cheerful. It's better to know the truth for yourself, then to willing live in ignorance because you fear what you may find out. You can't afford to be ignorant -- that's how victims are made. Anyway enough of that.

A few companion film to Salvador I think are:
-Romero
-Voces Inocentes (Innocent Voices)
-Under Fire
-El Norte
-Motorcycle Diaries

Since I think Salvador is barely the tip of the iceberg others in the same vain:
-Spy Games
-Syriana
-The Battle of Algiers

I really do watch a lot of movies so many to list. Saludos a todos los salvatruchos y no se maltraten tanto, aunque sea por la internet. Todos hemos sufrido de alguna forma u otra. Es el tiempo de sanar las heridas del pasado, y tratar de hacer un mejor futuro. Si vivimos en el odio todo el tiempo, nunca saldramos de esta oscuridad. ¡Cuidensen!

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[–] bllrghtz 19 years ago

Fantastic post PSTerran....Great advice, and excellent film recommendations. Thx for taking the time for such a well stated, and heartfelt post