MovieChat Forums > Hoosiers (1987) Discussion > Shooting style not right for the '50's.

Shooting style not right for the '50's.


It just seems a shame to me that with all the trouble they took with period detail in this movie that they couldn't coach the players to shoot '50's style. Or am I mistaken? All of the people I've seen play basketball who grew up during that period (our HS BB coach, my dad, and others) like the old-style two-hand set shot, starting the shot from chest level, yet in this movie, they all shoot from above the head, like we do now. Does anyone recall people in the 1950's actually shooting like this?
It struck me as a little anachronistic since they were playing in a gym that was a dead ringer for the one in which I saw games as a kid in a small mid-western town.

reply

It's a movie, dude.

reply

People pick on the most trivial of details for movies based on historical events. Somewhere else I read that someone saw a 1986 letter jacket being worn by an extra in the stands. If you can note out-of-time letter jackets, why not note a shooting style in basketball film. Sure, it's only a movie, but it's a valid point.

Also, not being a big basketball fan, I never noticed the difference. Now I've learned something I didn't know before.

reply

Heh, I'm just a kid so I don't know the difference between the 50's and today's shooting styles (and I don't really recall how anyone else shot, for that matter) but I remember thinking to myself when you see Jimmy at his house shooting hoops, "Well, no wonder he's sinking all those shots- he's the only one that actually knows how to shoot the basketball" because he certainly has a modern looking shot.

reply

KD:

I'm afraid you ARE mistaken, very mistaken.

I saw Oscar Robertson, who participated in the 1954 Indiana playoffs against the team which "inspired" the story of Hickory High, and he definitely shot in the modern style -- not the 2-hand set shot.

The jump shot was invented and used long before the 1950s. I know from reading history that a player named "Jumpin" Joe Fulks used the shot in winning an NBA scoring title in the 1940s. There was also a New Yorker with an Italian name, Crossetti???, who some people credit with inventing the jump shot. That was long before 1954.

I can't speak to what they were using in rural high schools in Indiana, but most, if not all, top-echelon players were NOT using two-hand set shots.

My father, who grew up in the 1930s and 1940s, often used a weird 2-hand set shot when he played basketball with me in the 1960s, but my recollection is that he told me that the 1950 CCNY team that won the NCAA and NIT title used the modern shot. My father was a classmate of theirs.

Shalom,
ZWrite

KD -- I didn't want to hit the "post reply" button without doing some research because posters should never rely on their memories for information. In five minutes, I found a lot of info that shows my above post is CORRECT.

Below is something I copy-pasted from GuideToCoachingBasketball.com

"The one-handed set shot first began appearing in the early 1940’s. Coaches and players, alike, soon began to discover this shot to be more accurate and could be released much quicker. A few years after that players added a jump to the shot, which gave birth to the one-handed jump shot that was even more effective and accurate from 10 feet-out. It was even more accurate than the hook shot being taken from the 4 to 12 foot range and much easier to get off in close quarters than the one-handed set shot.

By the 1950’s many players, from the high school level on up became very effective with these shots. This improved outside shooting soon took away much of the advantages of a packed-in zone defense. This forced such tight defenses to move out. This then made the penetrating dribble a more effective offensive weapon. Many players became more skillful with their dribbling abilities and we began to see a resurgence in a one-on-one situation. This gave the offense another way to penetrate the defense for a high percentage shot or dish off to a teammate for a like shot."

reply

Thanks for your enlightening reply, Zwrite. I also found this bio of Paul Arzin on nba.com. It begins:

"In the early days of the NBA a handful of pioneering players laid the groundwork for what would become "modern" basketball. What Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth, and Cy Young were to baseball, these early hoopsters were to the game of basketball. One such player was Paul Arizin.

Playing in an era of old-fashioned two-handed set shots and slow-up offenses, Arizin burst into the league in 1950 with a repertoire that included a daring new weapon: the jump shot. By the time Arizin was leading the league in scoring as a second-year player with the Philadelphia Warriors in 1952, only a few other players had mastered the shot."

The article then reviews his career and early life (indicating that he was born in 1928) and goes on to discuss his senior year in HS:

"It was at this time [1945-46, he started college at Villanova in 1946] that Arizin discovered the jump shot. "It came by accident," he said. "Some of our games were played on dance floors. It became quite slippery. When I tried to hook, my feet would go out from under me, so I jumped. I was always a good jumper. My feet weren't on the floor, so I didn't have to worry about slipping. The more I did it, the better I became. Before I knew it, practically all my shots were jump shots." Ceilings in some of the halls were low, forcing Arizin to fire line drives into the basket. That shot, with its low trajectory, remained a part of his arsenal throughout his career."

It would be interesting to know how quickly the jump shot spread; I don't doubt that the best players, like Oscar Robertson, would have been using it by 1954, but it's hard to imagine that it was widespread at all levels by then if only a few NBA players had mastered it by 1952. Of course the older players had probably learned their game years before (as did my dad and coach, who both graduated from HS in the early '50's) and it would most likely have been up to the younger players to transform the game.

reply

KD:

Thans for the info on Paul Arizin. I wish the guy who does the Dead or Alive Web site knew what you knew.

A year or so ago, I consulted the Dead or Alive Web site for entertainment purposes and noticed the proprietor listed a professional wrestler as the most recent death. Scrutinizing the matter further as someone who has been a pro wrestling fan, I noticed that he listed an excessive amount of these idiots on his Web site. I say 'idiots' because the number of them who die at very early ages, probably because of drug use, is astonishing.

In any case, the person who had just died was a star for maybe two years and then disappeared, probably because he was a "star" only because you can get away with promoting a mediocrity as a star for a while when the matches are all fixed.

Paul Arizin had just passed away and I e-mailed the Dead or Alive proprietor questioning how he could list the wrestler and NOT Arizin, who was a star for about 12 years, was in the NBA Hall of Fame, and was the second or third leading scorer in NBA history at the time he retired.

The proprietor e-mailed me back that he had personally had never heard of Arizin and, thus, he was not going to list the guy. This seemed awfully myopic. There are a lot of people whom I've never heard of, but I would put on a famous person obit list if I had read their obit and concluded they deserved to be on the list.

The bottom line, though, is that Arizin is still not on the list as far as I know. I doubt that my telling this guy that Arizin was crucial in the development of the jump shot would have persuaded him, but at least I now know this thanks to your post.

Shalom,
ZWrite

reply

In writing a blog about the John Edwards controversy today, something occurred to me.

When I was a kid, I read a book by Wilt Chamberlain titled something like "I'm Just Like The Seven-Foot-Tall Black Millionaire Who Lives Next Door To You." In the book, Chamberlain -- who later became known as an expert on women -- said that in all his years in the NBA he had 70 or 80 teammates and only ONE did not cheat on his wife.

He identified the one non-cheater as Paul Arizin.

My recollection is that this caused a controversy because his teammate, Jerry West, was regarded at the time as an all-America goody two shoes. Chamberlain responded to the controversy by publicly reiterating that only Arizin was a loyal family man.

Shalom,
ZWrite

reply

[deleted]

Hank Luisetti shot running one-handers (the precursor of the modern jump shot) playing for Stanford in the mid-1930s (about the time Shooter Flach supposedly graduated from high school).

reply

JToday:

In my original July 4 post on this subject, I wrote that I thought that the inventor of the jump shot was named Crossetti. I was pretty close although I was wrong on the geography. I'm getting old, and, besides, I have a New York bias.

Thanks for the info on Luisetti. I checked Wikipedia, and you are correct.

ZWrite

reply

If you would read the biography of Bobby Plump, the real guy who shot the final shot for Milan's state championship, you would learn that Bobby chose not to go to Indiana University because the IU coach wanted to change Bobby from the modern jump shot back to the two-handed set shot. Bobby had taught the whole Milan team to shoot the modern jump shot. He went to Butler University and played many college games on the very same floor where he shot, "the shot heard 'round the world."

reply

You are correct about the shooting style in the 50's. My Dad played HS ball in the 50's and that was the prevailing style.
If you recall the first game in the movie, Ray comes out in the second half and ignores the coach's rule about 4 passes. He throws up and makes 2 set shots in the style you described.
I don't recall other set shots in the movie

reply

The jump shot was around well before the time in which "Hoosiers" was set. My father, who played college ball in the late 40's and early '50's, could shoot both a jumper and a set shot with deadly accuracy.

reply

My father also played in the mid-40's through the early 50's, and said the jump shot was popular - although not universally used. The two handed set shot was still used frequently, as was the one handed set shot (no jump). You see BOTH of these styles in the movie too. Had to be kinda tough for the actors ...

Loved the free throw style as well - my dad used it his entire life - and could usually whip us in free throw shooting. Haven't seen it used anywhere since the 70's (Rick Barry and a few others).

Good discussion - any true hoosier loves talking basketball ...

reply

I don't have much interest in basketball, other than having shot baskets in my driveway as a kid, but I've found the posts on this "shooting style" thread very interesting. I've noticed that the techniques of all sports change over the years. It's a fascinating topic to explore.

reply