MovieChat Forums > Hoosiers (1987) Discussion > Is Norman Dale a bad coach?

Is Norman Dale a bad coach?


His team sucked until they got Jimmy Chitwood. After that they were awesome.

So if they hadn't gotten him, the team probably still would have been terrible. The team was mainly good because of Chitwood, not Dale's coaching ability.

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[deleted]

dunno. he seemed weak on d. i wouldn't have recruited him.




Season's Greetings

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The team had been 15-10 the previous year, with all the starters there. So it was naturally expected that the team would win 20 or so and make a little bit of a post-season run with Jimmy back. Without Jimmy, Norman Dale or anybody else probably would have had trouble topping 15-10 this season.

The team was clearly starting to make strides when jimmy decided to return. Of course, had jimmy not made his dramatic pronouncement, they would have voted (64-46, seems like) to dismiss Dale.

The question, I guess, is, had Dale not taken the job & the tall dufus who was running practice (or someone similar) taken over and jimmy somehow HAD opted to play, could they have made a similar post-season run? Considering their defense, passing & discipline were mediocre at best before Dale honed them, I would say no. They might have won a playoff game or two, but would jever have made it out of regionals.

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The question, I guess, is, had Dale not taken the job & the tall dufus who was running practice (or someone similar) taken over and jimmy somehow HAD opted to play, could they have made a similar post-season run? Considering their defense, passing & discipline were mediocre at best before Dale honed them, I would say no. They might have won a playoff game or two, but would jever have made it out of regionals.


Jimmy would never have come back to play under George. He wasn't going to waste time playing for a yo-yo like him.

Even without Jimmy, they would have been an OK team -- Merle, Buddy, Everett and Rade weren't bad players -- but they wouldn't have caught fire in the tournament.

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Well, I have fun with my basketball-fan friends when I point out that virtually everything Norman Dale did as a coach blew up on him during the season:

1) Norm comes in and everybody tells him 'you cannot win without Jimmy.' In the end, of course, it is proven they would not have won without Jimmy.

2) Norm comes in and lays down the law, "four passes before every shot." As soon as Jimmy sets foot on the court, that rule goes out the window and the offense becomes the "Give and Go Offense" -- Give Jimmy the ball and Go Rebound."

3) Norm comes in and lays down the law, "My Word Is Law When It Comes To This Basketball Team." Then, with 16 seconds left in the state championship game, Norm calls time out, diagrams the play he thinks will win the title, and all of a sudden everyone stalks off in a funk and Jimmy says "I'll make it," which is a polite way of saying "GIVE ME THE DAMN BALL."

4) Norm's efforts to straighten out Shooter worked for about 30 seconds in the one game when he diagrammed the defensive switch and then the picket-fence play. Other than that he was a sniveling quivering failure. And of course after Norm laying down the law, "if I smell even a trace of liquor on your breath you'll be finished," he ends up stomping across the court in the middle of a tournament game, drunk out of his gourd.

5) The real test of a coach is not really what he does with superstars like Jimmy Chitwood -- anybody can throw him the ball and say, "go crazy, dude." What the real test of a coach is, is what he does with average or below-average players like Ollie. Yet after the whole season, when they are in the playoffs, Ollie is as horrible an actual basketball player as he ever was -- he dribbles off his foot, bricks an easy shot, then airballs two free throws. Then of course he makes two free throws but making two free throws does not really indicate you have improved as an actual basketball player. If Norman was really that great a coach, he would have turned Ollie into at least a decent player.

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1) He was starting to win without Jimmy. What put them over the top though was Jimmy putting his faith behind Dale. Of course Jimmy is the star there though, but he benefits from the average player knowing what he's doing.

2) They're only showing small glimpses of each game, including some Jimmy footage. That doesn't mean though that they're not doing four passes for most of the game. Besides, the four passes was to explain to them how to play as a team. By halfway through the season, that teamwork is instilled in them, and they're looking out for each other instead of playing selfishly.

3) It's a huge emotional moment, and for that last shot Dale recognizes Jimmy's confidence and lets him run with it. The sulking by the other players was a little over-the-top, but the idea of showing you have faith in the confident star for the biggest shot ever isn't losing control of the team.

4) The Shooter experiment didn't work well basketball-wise, but it showed his son that his father isn't a useless drunk but does have problems. By the end they're together in a true father-son relationship. So the move is a huge success or what Dale cared about. He didn't need an assistant coach, but he saw an opportunity to make a difference in the lives of a father and son.

5) Ollie might have improved throughout the year, but he's suddenly going into a huge game in the opposition's arena. For a high school kid with almost no athletic ability who hasn't played all game, that's about as nerve-wracking as anything could ever be. Of COURSE his nerves got the best of him.

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They only had 5-to-7 players on the roster most of the season. Ollie already should have been getting extensive playing time so he shouldn't really have been nervous to go in the game.

Years ago, I used to coach and usually there were a couple kids on the team who were "Ollie"-style players.

I decided, 'not every player is good at everything, you will have some who are not good at very many things, but you should be able to figure out SOMETHING every player is at least decent at.'

So a small player like Ollie who was not a good shooter? Those guys are usually quick and fast. They also want to be 'part of the team' so they are usually 'hustle guys' who do not quit. Turn them into defensive guards whose job is to harrass the opposing players into turnovers. Knock the ball loose and throw it upcourt to Merle or Jimmy.

If they commit fouls, who really cares, it isn't going to kill you if 'Ollie' fouls out.

I had some kids who were short, chunky and stumpy. Well, guess what, those kids are usually pretty good at rebounding and setting picks. Tell them to sag into the lane on defense, every time a shot goes up bump the nearest opponents with their short-chunky butts, clear them out and grab the rebounds. Again, if they get called for fouls, who cares?

Norman should have figured out a couple things Ollie could be good at and figured out a way to make use of him.

Oh, also -- guys like Ollie, the guys who used to be the team managers -- the ONE thing they are usually really good at is shooting free throws. If they are the team managers they usually spend about half of every practice shooting free throws at the side baskets while the 'superstars' are scrimmaging.




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4) You ever seen Superman $#$# his pants? Case closed.

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