MovieChat Forums > Hoosiers (1987) Discussion > Points out problem with kids sports

Points out problem with kids sports

posted 14 years ago by beefus-1
19 replies | jump to latest

Adult organized and operated kid's sports as depicted in this movie are not "sports", but competition, meant not to be fun, but serious and warlike. No wonder only 5 kids went out for the basketball team...There's no way anybody is going to have any fun playing on THAT team..
This, however, is the pervasive attitude of kids "sports" in this country (and maybe the world), tantamount, in my opinion to child abuse. Give the kids a court,a basketball, and they can chose up teams and have FUN..Throw in adults who want to use kids like little warriors to fight their battles, and you have abuse.
The film started out with an honorable attitude by the coach to let everybody play as a team with no "star athletes". It deteriorates into "everybody feed Jim" in order to achieve the almighty "win"..For the highly competitive American male, a happy ending..For me, a sad one......

[–] jaystarstar 13 years ago

The script-writers went wrong in the beginning by indulging in all the hard-nails cliches about sports coaches, by having Norman say, "my practices are not designed for your enjoyment."

Norman's line, "basketball is a voluntary activity, you don't have to be here" is absolutely true. And if being on the team is not at least in SOME ways enjoyable, the players will go off and find something better to do. Whether the coach likes it or not, he has to find some way to make it fun to be on the team.

In any game where they keep score, it is more fun to be good than to be bad. Nobody was having fun in the early games where they were losing. I was on some bad losing teams as a kid and it was horrible.

I coached basketball for a few years myself, and I ran a pretty tough ship, but what I told the kids was, "my practices are not designed for your enjoyment -- AT FIRST -- but they will be later on as you become better players and we become a better team."

So my attitude was, make the practices tough, but make them fast-moving and fun, and never ever ever attack or blast the players. Always be positive and remember we are here to get better.

[–] denny2100 13 years ago

I think there is a difference between "kids sports" and high school sports. Most high school kids are playing a sport they are very interested in playing Most of them are serious about the sport and want to improve their performance.
"Kid sports" such as little league baseball, softball, and soccer with elementary school kids should be played for fun and learning about a sport. And i agree some of the people coaching at that level are out o control

[–] jaystarstar 13 years ago

Well, you can do both.

As a coach, you can run practices which are well-organized, well-planned with specific goals for areas in which you want to improve, but also make them fast-moving and interesting with little time-wasting.

You can certainly "have fun" without goofing off, screwing around, wasting time and messing around with junk that has nothing to do with improving the team. (Such as practices under George.)

When I was on some bad losing teams as a kid, the stuff I really hated was practices where the coach just stood around and yelled, made us waste time on crap that had nothing to do with getting any better and run laps and sprints just because he wanted to bully everybody.

[–] Grendel1950 13 years ago

I can agree with a small part of this - I can't remember the last time I saw a group of kids playing any sport at all without an army of adults "instructing" them on how to play. I suppose a bunch of kids playing ball without adult supervision would be arrested.

[–] beefus-1 13 years ago

2011...One of the hottest summers on record..What are the storm trooper adults doing with their little warriors! Making them practice football!!..Result? Dead and injured high school players...Stupid beyond belief...

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] ba_bam_bam 13 years ago

"Stupid beyond belief"

That's my exact thoughts on this thread and the complete lack of understanding of the benefits and discipline offered through organized competitive sports.

[–] GeorgeBailey 13 years ago

Amen!

Hollywood needs to make a great movie about kids who win participation awards!!!!

[–] Drewy 12 years ago

No wonder only 5 kids went out for the basketball team...There's no way anybody is going to have any fun playing on THAT team..

Well, in actual fact, at least 8 kids went out for the basketball team. One withdrew when their coach died, leaving 7 who were at practice when Coach Dale turns up for the first time. And, remember, we are told that there were only 64 boys in the whole school. That's actually a very high percentage.

Two of the team left during that first practice, but both returned later.

[–] damicomarkp20 12 years ago

I'll start by saying that I love this movie for all of the reasons that you hate it. Like others have already said, no one forces kids to participate in what you refer to as competition (rather than sports). For most athletes, organized sports end once they graduate from high school, so up until that point the nature of high school sports (intensity, commitment, strict organization, etc.) create an environment where it truly is only fun when you win. A person has the rest of their life to play for fun. If you don't like such an environment, no one is stopping you from going to the park with your buddies and play pick-up in a minimally regimented setting. If you do thrive on the competitive aspects of high school sports, then by all means participate. It is a "to each his own" type of situation. If one is averse to high pressure, high intensity situations such as those found in competitive sports, then simply don't play. But, don't criticize those who do play.

Just as an aside, I played high school basketball and loved every minute of the hard work, stress, and elation enjoyed after victories. I truly only had fun when my team won, and it often felt more like a job than it did jolly fun time, which for me was a great thing. However, after high school, my competitive career ended (like it does for most), and I found enjoyment in playing pick-up hoops with my buddies all through college. In this games, I certainly preferred to win, but I still had fun just being with my friends and getting some exercise, aside from whether I ever won or lost. Point is, there is a time for both types of sport (fun and competitive). For whatever reason, our society is structured so that those competitive times occur during a person's teenage years in most cases (likely because this is when most people have the most free time, away from the stress of raising a family or working), but for 99.99% of cases, we play because we want to. No one forces kids to be "gladiators" so quit hating on an awesome movie, which takes a lot of people back to what were our sports "glory days."

[–] chas437 12 years ago

Well said. This film portrays high school sports at a time when it was pure.

I've always believed that involvement in athletics at an early age teaches kids discipline, ability to work with others, and other important life lessons.

[–] montecristo42 12 years ago

Organized sports provide countless benefits to kids and high schoolers. Learning how to be part of a team, learning how to deal with both winning and losing, learning how to take direction AND how to suggest alternatives to leadership, and learning how to look deep within and push yourself a little farther--every time out--are important, vital lessons that prepare teens for adulthood. Athletic programs instill much-needed discipline and direction that pay off greatly later in life.

Getting better at anything takes practice. Deliberate practice. It isn't always fun. It SHOULDN'T be easy. But that's part of the process. The ability to cope temporary discomfort and unease in order to reap greater rewards later is a trait that probably ALL successful people possess.

[–] Quanfa 12 years ago

I have to agree with the last few posts. There are countless benefits to learning how to work as a team, striving for perfection, discipline, etc. Sure, jocks can be conceited jerks and baseball dads can be overbearing monsters who should be barred from everything. But beyond the people that make the news, a lot of people learn standards that they can take into their adult years.

As for fun, we all define it in different ways. If you think organized sports should just be kids screwing around, don't let your kids play sports and let them screw around. Stop bashing people with different ideas about character building. Oh, and if you think America pushes kids too hard with sports, go watch a documentary on Japanese or Chinese sports.

[–] jaystarstar 11 years ago

During my legendary years-ago coaching career, I never ever ever had a player run a lap or a sprint. Not once.

I did, however, make damn sure the practices included plenty of end-to-end full-court fastbreak drills, long-rebound outlet pass drills, full-speed dribbling races, layup drills and double-whistle basket change scrimmages.

By the end of every practice the players had run way more than they would have running laps or wind sprints, but they had also been learning how to dribble, pass, shoot and rebound at full speed for virtually the whole practice.

So when it got to games they were used to running hard for 90 minutes and doing everything at a faster pace.

================

4) You ever seen Superman $#$# his pants? Case closed.

[–] the_zookeeper 11 years ago

Damicomark, as a lifetime athlete who competed on local, state, college, and military levels, and as a parent of a fantastic baseball player, I cannot disagree with you enough about your statement that kids are not forced to play sports. Many kids I played with did so to gain the attention of a parent or because the older sibling played, and thus he or she was forced to as well. They sure were forced to play, especially if they wanted approval from the parent, and the parent in this situation was almost always vicariously living through the children or was worried his ego would be bruised if the kid was not honored in the community as an athlete.

One of my friends in high school only played one particular sport because she was forced to play a sport every season, and she was an excellent athlete. I also saw kids play with my son who were forced to play a sport as well, and on the high school level. I saw other kids cry on the field because of the way their parents treated them, and I saw many kids embarrassed of their parents' behavior.

I do not know what levels you played on, and I do not want to make assumptions, but it is possible that you either had an idyllic childhood or did not live in an area like the one in the movie, where sports were gods. Sadly, we did at times. We watched Western Washington Little League umpires change the outcome of games at the state level because of home-field preferences. We saw district level games affected by dishonest scorekeeping and coaching in Kentucky, which was the worst place I'd imagine returning to with children for baseball, regardless of the accolades the place gathered.

Sure, we saw many happy kids and decent parents, but I can attest that kids are indeed forced to play, and that parents who have not moved on in their own lives (or communities with good-old boy attitudes) ruin sports for kids. They do turn the high school football game into a life-and-death situation.

I offer to you the ultimate proof that these kids are given way too much credit and god-like statuses in the Steubenville rape case. Football players took advantage of a passed-out 16 year-old girl, posted pictures of their sexually assaulting her on the internet, and laughed about it the next day. A person online during the time caught all the evidence, tracked it, and reported it, and many of the citizens of the city sent death threats to the girl and the woman who recorded the evidence. Even the coach, who found out about it, tried to cover it up. Why? Because many Ohio and Pennsylvania places (Steel Valley) idolize football, and the accused were football players.

Maybe instead of our "quitting the hate," you should consider that you are overtly nostalgic and are not fairly assessing what can happen when adults have no lives and try to take over those of their children.

And yes, it was hard for me to let go of the ball when I had kids, but I discovered scorekeeping, which is awesome.

The gene pool could use a little chlorine......

[–] ericbxxxxx 11 years ago

This movie wasn't made for pussy liberals wanting to remove competition from the lives of Americans in an effort to co-op everybody's earnings while allowing the successful to wipe the ass of the losers. Maybe a Michael Moore documentary is your speed. You can whine together.