What did Lee ever see in Frederick? He's so annoying and mad at the world. He seriously looks like he's going to implode when Elliot brings that guy by to buy Frederick's art. "I don't sell art by the yard!!" Gee, grandpa, relax. I can't even picture Lee and Frederick having sex. Even his bed is depressing.
I'm just a girl, standing in front of a boy, asking him to love her.
he makes a good sandwich?
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I like Frederick. I deeply empathise with, and relate to, some of his foibles and failings. In fact, thinking about it now, there are little moments in this film as a whole that break my heart.
shareI love the scene where she returns from a tryst with her sister's husband Elliot and Frederick is banging on about a documentary he just watched about the Holocaust. He complains about that all the "puzzled intellectuals" asking "how could it happen?".....then says "they should be asking why doesn't it happen more often? And it DOES, in subtler forms!".
Meanwhile Leigh just wants to watch some mindless show, have sex and fall asleep. She just wants a normal marriage and he wants an endless round of mental gymnastics and she can't take it. I can get that.
I love Frederick. His short scenes are the highlight of this film.
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His character wasn't meant to be likeable and we don't know enough about him to sympathize with him, but he is a great character and Von sydow is perfect.
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Frederick represents someone completely adverse to modern popular culture. He's an intellectual whose career as an artist hasn't turned out quite like he thought it would. Meanwhile, he's sees others of less talent thriving financially. Hence, his comment that Elliot is a "glorified accountant". Elliot bringing Dusty, the rock star, to purchase some of Frederick's art, sends Frederick over the top. As Dusty is the very sort of character that Frederick dislikes and resents the most.
Lee is a person of average education that longs to be an intellectual, and has probably had numerous relationships with shallow men her own age. Frederick is older, different, and interesting. But his novelty is starting to wear off with Lee.
Frederick is adverse to modern life, to the point that he can't deal with people anymore. He sees himself as superior, and wants no part of dealing with the average idiot.
I agree except Fredrick is an idiot when it comes to Lee. That's what makes him funny. He is arrogant and intellegent, but when it comes to love he is a moron like the rest of us.
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Great observation, bhoover! I've been trying to figure out what was so off-kilter about Frederick and you nailed it.
"May I bone your kipper, Mademoiselle?"
I don't know. He's a 60 year old man, who got a 30 year old hottie to live with him for several years. As a single man of 61, I'll take some of that action. Sure beats dating the Aunt Bea church ladies.
shareHe didn't particularly look it in this role, but Max von Sydow is a very handsome man, so it is not hard to see how Lee would have fallen for him a few years before that. Apparently he was very moody, and the scene he appeared were during his low, I hate humanity, periods. Also, many woman dig the artist type and the troubled, agonized man. So it fits.
Apart from that, I thought Frederick was hysterical. His rant about switching channels and getting a quick view of contemporary American culture was devastating and hilarious.
Opposites attract, and I think these two were as opposite as you could possibly get. She could have done a lot better than Frederick, but as for him, he was lucky to have her. He just was a depressing, rage-fueled, narrow-minded kind of guy who over-reacts to the simplest of stuff. Michael Caine was no prize, but compared to Frederick, he knows how to talk to a woman to make her feel special, and he had a special kind of charm to him.
Yeah, you better give me the insurance. Because I'm gonna beat the hell out of this car.
Frederick had the best lines in the movie. "What kind of intellect does it take to enjoy wrestling?" "If god looked down and saw what was being done in his name, he wouldn't stop throwing up." I am paraphrasing of course.
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Allen has had variations of the Frederick character in many of his movies. The guy in late middle age, who longs for a previous era of culture and a presence of the social graces. You can see this theme even within this same movie with Allen's Mickey character, when he goes on a blind date with Holly, and he grimaces through a rock concert she has taken him to. Afterward, Mickey takes her to a piano bar, where Bobby Short is performing Cole Porter songs. Holly drags him out of there, complaining how uncool he is. At which point Mickey angrily says "You don't deserve Cole Porter". Allen is expressing the same philosophy with two disparate characters within the same movie.
Also see the Howard character in "September".
And an Allen film without a character expressing the "Frederick philosophy", but the point of the entire movie; "Celebrity".
So you wanted Woody to create some Brad Pitt character to come to Lee's rescue? It's typical of Allen's movies to involve older men with much younger women. It's to be expected.
share"So you wanted Woody to create some Brad Pitt character to come to Lee's rescue?"
Actually, eelb,that is precisely what he did in "Whatever Works". Larry David played the "Woody"/older man character who landed the young babe, but in the course of the film she eventually falls for a good-looking younger man (the "Brad Pitt" character), played by Henry Cavill, who more recently played Superman.
It worked in Whatever Works because we're dealing with a semi-trash teenie bopper. A completely different character than the 30-ish, upper class Lee in "Hannah".
shareLee was not a career girl (that we saw). She'd battled addiction, probably grew up in Hannah's shadow all her life. Freddy comes along and wants to take care of her, and maybe initially he wasn't the grump that he became. Maybe she was charmed by his intellect, his artistry, and wanted to learn from him…and then the relationship became more "comfortable." It took falling for Elliot to make her realize how unhappy she'd become and how she needed to make a change.
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