MovieChat Forums > Rambo: First Blood Part II (1985) Discussion > NEED SOME HELP ON A CONFUSING SCENE..

NEED SOME HELP ON A CONFUSING SCENE..

posted 10 years ago by Manowarman
22 replies | jump to latest

I have watched this film probably 200 times, and I have yet to fully understand a few things, particularly one scene..

Could somebody explain this in a "simple way"?

I do not understand the premise of the entire "abort the operation" scene. Yes, I realize, the original mission wasn't supposed to include Rambo engaging the enemy. But, why did Murdoc simply order him just left there AFTER he sent a helicopter crew with Trautmann to go and search for him?

This can also lead back to the original idea of - why even have the mission to begin with in the first place?

I just didn't understand the scene - also didn't understand that one guy's smug attitude (with the sunglasses - the guy who then says "you aren't going anywhere"). From the moment Rambo walked in, the guy had this arrogant attitude against Rambo, with his dirty looks and not even getting him a drink.

I also never understood what he meant by "no...your men...don't be a hero!" when Trautman was yelling "you goddamned mercenaries..there's men down there, our men!!

Can somebody simply explain this all to me? I am sure politics are involved someway, but it was like - okay - why have a mission if you were just going to abandon the guy you sent over to partake in the mission?

[–] Balboasaurus 10 years ago

Yes, Rambo was not supposed to engage the enemy. The army probably had intel that there were no more POWs in that camp, thus, the media and the public drop the issue of the war's aftermath back home. The POW tells Rambo they are moved around the different camps. Trautman and Murdock have a discussion about it. The US was supposed to pay $4.5 billion in war reparations to Viet Nam. They refused, so Viet Nam kept the POWs.

The helicopter was sent to extract Rambo out of the camp. When Erikson and Lifer notified the control center that Rambo had a POW in tow, that's when they decided to abort the mission. Lifer and Erikson are contractors; they are not emotionally involved in any way with the mission. When Trautman said "our men", I suppose he was trying to appeal to their former soldier-code.

Hope that helps.

[–] Manowarman 10 years ago

Helps a bit Balboa...thank you. Wouldn't Lifer especially have been charged with something tho for pulling a gun on a full-bird colonel?

[–] Hendry_William_French 10 years ago

But, why did Murdoc simply order him just left there AFTER he sent a helicopter crew with Trautmann to go and search for him

This can also lead back to the original idea of - why even have the mission to begin with in the first place?

Hope this line helps (copy and pasted this from the script):

TRAUTMAN
The camp was supposed to be empty.
Rambo goes in... a former decorated
Vet. He finds no P.O.W.'s. The
Congress buys it, case closed. If
he gets caught, no one knows he's
alive except you and your computers,
and you can reprogram that, can't
you?

Everything Murdock does is for show. He sends the helicopter out to pick them up just so that he can say he did it if anyone asks. Thus, if some press or investigators show up and inquire about the mission, he can lie to them and say Rambo was killed on extraction, so basically he and his goons can cover it all up if need be (I guess Trautman being the sole witness would be probably be blackballed by Murdock and no one would believe him).

Murdock green lights that entire mission as a ruse, it was never supposed to succeed and Rambo was wholly expendable.

Motown, get your Detroit jukebox Jheri curl ass in this chicken$hit chop-chop! ASAFP!

[–] Balboasaurus 10 years ago

What a poor, sad soul Rambo. It's a good thing Trautman cared for him beyond military duty.

[–] Shockproof_Jamo 10 years ago

This scene confused me too for a good number of years. Abandoning Rambo just like that always was a dick move, but more importantly, it seemed to come completely out of nowhere. "Hey, we have our boy out there who needs help, let's just drop everything". To understand the "Abandon Rambo" scene, you need to know a little bit of Vietnam war history and the conspiracy theories surrounding it.

When the USA pulled out in 1973, it's been speculated that Vietnam demanded America to pay war reparations to make up for the damages they caused. USA of course refused, so after that, Vietnam kept the remaining US prisoners to themselves, just to spite America. Now, the captive servicemen naturally had friends and family members who wanted their boys back home. But to the US government, the whole incident was annoying and embarrassing. They had exactly two choices, both of them bad. Either pay ransom money to a communist bandit state and admit defeat, or risk creating an international incident by attempting a dangerous and expensive rescue operation. And for all the politicians knew, the remaining prisoners could very well be dead already.

So to shut up the POW activists and their demands, pretend "rescue operations" like what you see in Rambo II were organized. Spies were sent to gather "evidence" that no more US prisoners of war are left in Vietnam. With this, the US government could claim with clear conscience that all that can be done, has been done and there are no more prisoners left in Vietnam. That way, the US can just sweep the whole thing under the rug and save money and man power. No need to pay to anyone, or send Delta teams to dangerous and costly rescue missions.

This is where Rambo rescuing that one POW becomes a problem. Had Murdock allowed the rescued POW return back to the States, the whole incident would've blown wide open again. With the rescued POW testifying that more prisoners are still out there, demands to bring the rest back would've intensified once more, leaving America once again to either pay up, or start another war just to rescue the ones left behind. It would've been a mess.

So rather than to deal with the awkward situation, Murdock was simply ordered to abandon the mission and leave Rambo to be captured and tortured by the Vietnamese to shut him up. This is incidentally the reason why Rambo was chosen for the mission in the first place: If things go south, hey, he's an unstable ex-con with no friends or family. There's not going to be any problems if he's just left behind. Only Trautman would miss him, and he can be silenced simply by pulling a rank and telling him to shut up. As a soldier of the US armed forces, he'd have no choice but to obey.

So this is why Rambo was abandoned. Murdock did it to protect Uncle Sam's reputation and wallet.

[–] Manowarman 10 years ago

Thanks shockproof. WHat was with that one guy (sunglasses) and his attitude, though?

[–] Hendry_William_French 10 years ago

Lifer (http://rambo.wikia.com/wiki/Lifer) is just your standard mercenary. No heart or emotion, just in it for whoever's paying him.

Motown, get your Detroit jukebox Jheri curl ass in this chicken$hit chop-chop! ASAFP!

[–] amodestproposal 8 years ago

Let me see if I can help you out with Lifer's attitude.
Look at it like this...Rambo is a highly-decorated Green Beret with an honorable discharge who went back home and couldn't hack it, went crazy.

Think about how somebody becomes a mercenary in Vietnam in the mid 80s. They most likely served in the war. Lifer could have been a deserter even...would explain his nickname...like a joke. Someone like him would have some animosity, jealousy, and hatred toward someone with Rambo's record. Plus he's been making a living killing folks for a long time, so he's probably pretty callous.

As to why Rambo was left behind...you have to understand how it was supposed to go from Murdoc's perspective. This was his plan: get somebody with a good service record who was easy to control, but wouldn't be missed if something went wrong, to go back to Vietnam to, what his satelite photos told him, was an empty village. His job would be to take photos which would serve as proof that the Vietnamese government had been lying about keeping American POWs, and muster support in congress for efforts to bring them home.

Since he's a CIA spook and a POS, Murdock is told that this evidence shouldn't be acquired, but it has to look like they made an effort. Hence the empty camp and incapable candidate.

Remember, this was all during the Cold War and Vietnam was supported by the Soviet Union. It was all very delicate politically.

What Murdock didn't count on was that Rambo would be more than capable of completing the mission, and that he wouldn't care that he wasn't supposed to succeed.

Rambo thought that if he had an actual POW with him, that they'd have to pick him up. He didn't understand that Murdock would go that far to keep the fact that there were POWs in Vietnam under wraps. Murdock could make photos disappear if Rambo came back with them...hell he could make Rambo disappear. But he'd have a much harder time making an American POW vanish if Rambo were to get him to the base.

So, he ordered his team to leave him. They're mercenaries, they don't give a sh*&.

He didn't have to worry about Trautman saying anything...he's a Colonel in the U.S. Army on a black-bag mission. What's he gonna do, go tell the press? No way.

As for why Murdock would even send the chopper...he had to, mostly to appease Trautman, who was his military liason and someone he wanted to try to keep happy until he couldn't.
Also, Murdock most likely thought he was sending the helicopter to an empty extraction site anyway, that Rambo wouldn't make it, or that he'd be there, alone, they'd bring him back, say nice job and promise to get the POWs out...and then send him back to prison where'd he'd be killed before his pardon went through after they burned his film.

Now...I have a theory that Rambo getting hung up outside the plane was deliberate and that was Murdock's way of killing him and ending the mission before it could even begin. Then he'd say to the oversight committee, "We sent a top asset, dedicated almost a million dollars to a secret recon mission. Unfortunately, that asset was killed during a dangerous low-open jump insertion and the mission had to be scrubbed while we retool and find a new candidate and mission window..." which could delay things for a year or more.

This explains why it doesn't look like Lifer isn't trying too hard to free Rambo from the strap, and that look he gives Erickson in the cockpit later.

So, Rambo inexplicably survives the plane. After that, Murdock is flying by the seat of his pants, making it up as he goes.

Hope that helps you out!

[–] TheHungryHippo (821) 5 years ago

Actually I think Rambo took a POW with him for 2 reasons: A-he lost his camera during the drop and it was his only way to bring back evidence and B- he had a real problem with leaving men behind, he wanted to at least save one of them

[–] vspm83 10 years ago

Shockproof. very nice explanation.

[–] rverdekal 10 years ago

the mercenaries were not in the Vietnam war, that's what I got out of it all which was why they didnt care.

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] fmultari 10 years ago

I also didn't understand what they planned to do with Trautman? Were they going to waste him? He had already seen Rambo and he wouldn't have kept quiet about it.

[–] mark_ward1 9 years ago

Maybe they had a way of blackmailing Trautman to keep him quiet or they felt that Trautman wouldn't be believed by anyone if he said that Rambo had found POWs. After all, Rambo had definitely proven himself unstable in the first movie.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Now thats a good point!
Although Murdock did tell him to stfu afterwards saying "even your family is at risk"

[–] tbickle84 8 years ago

Murdock explains the reason in great detail:

If America found out the Vietnamese were still holding American POWS (basically unless America paid them what was owed in war reparations which they refused to do), U.S. citizens would go ape shat and demand we get them which could lead to another potential war or just civil unrest on American soil.

The crazy part is, although it's an extremely unforgivable thing that Murdock did, you sort of see where he's coming from. He is simply doing his job for the higher-ups. Unfortunately, like many, his loyalty is to the government and not to his brothers.

It's a very ironic movie and makes Rambo all the more tragic. Will always be my favorite in the franchise and my top 5 favorite action films of all time.

[–] TheUltimateHippo (2250) 7 years ago

The POW's families were putting pressure on the US government to investigate Vietnam and find out if their loved ones were still alive. They either wanted: a) confirmation that their loved ones really were dead so that they could move on or b) The US military to extract the men and bring them home. Murdock was appointed to deal with the problem and he knew that if POW's were discovered in Vietnam it would create a political nightmare because that would mean the US government would have to either a) invade Vietnam again or b) resume the ransom reparations (4 billion dollars) which would be going to US enemies and could be used to fund war efforts against the US and their allies. Neither situation was preferable. Murdock then decides that what he has to do is send someone in with the hope that they don't find anyone so he can say that they attempted to find the POWs but were too late, that the POWs were dead and then lay the issue to rest and move on.

So Murdock decides to get Rambo out of prison and chooses him for the mission. The official reason was because Rambo was an expert in guerrilla warfare and knew the terrain very well but the actual reason was if he were to be killed no one would care. Now Murdock then intentionally send Rambo to a camp that he believes to be empty. There were 3 scenarios that he contemplated could happen and he prepared for all of them:

1) What he was most hoping would happen was Rambo returns with pictures showing an empty camp and therefore Murdock could say with a straight face that the POWs were dead and that no further action was needed.

2) While he wanted Rambo to return with no evidence he also considered that Rambo might be killed during the mission and if that happened he would tell the US congress that they had to start over and find someone else to complete the mission, this means he could kick the can down the road until either the public lost interest or he was reassigned to something else

3) While he did not want for this to happen he did prepare for the possibility that Rambo would return with photos showing POWs at the camp, if that were the case he would either destroy them behind closed doors or digitally alter them and remove the POWs, it would be a simple case of his word vs. Rambo's word and no one would believe Rambo over Murdock as Rambo was an ex-con who was considered to be mentally unbalanced (another reason Rambo was chosen for the mission).

However Rambo did something that Murdock didn't plan for, he took one of the POWs with him and Murdock knew there was no way he'd ever be able to keep the POW quiet about the rest of the men out there so he had to abandon Rambo, erase his data from the computers and then try to cover the whole thing up the best he could. This also meant he was going to have to try to intimidate Trautman to keep him quiet. What Murdock didn't count on was how good Rambo was.

[–] Bigcat (259) 6 years ago

The scene ive never understood is when Rambo and Trautman are walking out to the airplane before Rambo gets on he turns to Trautman and says something about and im paraphrasing here but he says something like, "remember when Murdoch said the 2nd battalion was stationed in Kaysong? 2nd battalion was stationed in Kaysing" "Your the only one I trust." Ive got the country names messed up but why does he say that? And Trautman kind of looks at him. Does Rambo know Murdoch is full crap and this whole operation is a joke and he doesn't expect to make it back but he wants Trautman to know that Murdoch is a liar? Ive never understood that scene.

[–] SpaceAce2001 (387) 6 years ago

Rambo had no way of knowing that the whole operation was a sham, that scene just shows that Rambo doesn’t trust Murdock and it gives the audience the impression that things aren’t what they seem.