MovieChat Forums > The Black Cauldron (1985) Discussion > Did anybody else hate Eilonwy and Taran ...

Did anybody else hate Eilonwy and Taran ?

posted 16 years ago by misterdinguerie
21 replies | jump to latest

I still have mixed feelings over this movie, which I consider to be visually magnificent and well-voiced overall (kudos to John Hurt, Freddie Jones and Nigel Hawthorne) but to be pretty thin when it comes to good character development and plot. Most characters are either good (the Horned King, Gurgi and Flewwdur) or passable (Creeper, Dallben) but Taran and Eilonwy are just obnoxious. Taran spends most of the movie moaning unconvincingly about how he wants to be a hero and Eilonwy's dialogue is constituted of nothing but whining, bitching and crying. The fact that their actors have annoying voices doesn't help. I end up rooting for the Horned King, just to hope he'll kill these annoying kids.

CAPTAIN OBVIOUS TO THE RESCUE !

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] gata86 16 years ago

I didn't mind the way their voices sounded, but their characters were awful--a bunch of whining and many unfinished sentences.

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] StartingAllOver14 16 years ago

I've recently done seeing this movie and I also have mixed feelings about it. I've heard many people saying that Gurgi was annoying and I understand why, but I thought he was adorable.

Eilowny wasn't a obnoxious character, but she was unengaging and blend. Taran was okay enough, but not memorable

[–] sunrise_md2000 15 years ago

I hated them. And wanted to cry over it, because they are my favorite literary characters in all of fiction. Watching the film was like watching some alien life form claiming to be a dear friend or family member, while all the time you are screaming "that's not them!" and nobody is listening.

They have annoying dialog and zero character arc in this film.

[–] 15 years ago

[deleted]

[–] sunrise_md2000 15 years ago

Arc, as in, they don't change at all from the beginning to the end of the film. There's no growth, no development, no learning - beyond a weak sort of "friendship is better than heroism" cliche.

[–] drxcreatures 15 years ago

Have you read any of the books? It's been a while for me but, the personalities seemed similar.

http://www.cgonzales.net & http://www.drxcreatures.com

[–] sunrise_md2000 14 years ago

I know these books back and forth and inside-out. They have been my favorites for a decade and I have been heavily involved in literary criticism concerning them.

The literary Taran is basically similar to the film version. He is a headstrong farm boy who longs for heroism, good-hearted and earnest, but bumbling, immature, and inexperienced. The books' long painful coming-of-age process is truncated in the film to an abrupt swerve from his grasping at glory (symbolized by the magic sword) to realization that people are more important (trading it in for Gurgi's life). I realize it would have been difficult to squeeze six or seven year's worth of maturing into an hour and a half film, but his shift happens too fast to give it any depth, and it also bothers me that Gurgi is resurrected, rendering the sacrifice involved in the destruction of the cauldron meaningless. (But it's Disney, so...) I suppose it is a bit unfair of me to criticize the film depiction of Taran so strongly, as his personality really is portrayed fairly accurately, just hampered by poor dialog and a plot that doesn't do him justice.

Eilonwy, on the other hand, is butchered. At the time the books were written, empowered female characters were an anomaly and her spunk, independence, and wit were novelties in the literary world. The film strips her of most of her action (SHE, not Taran, takes the sword from the castle, for example) and changes her assertiveness into girly whining.

Look, for example, at their reconciliation after their escape from the castle. In the movie, after her tiff with Taran, she sniffles pitifully while meeting him halfway, with some apologetic remark about how they "all have to work together". In the book, however, she rightfully berates him for wrongfully accusing her until he, humbled by the truth, apologizes. (Granted, the movie tiff is over a completely different subject than the one in the book, but still.)

I could come up with countless other examples. Her character as portrayed on the film was simply a travesty, a hack job by Disney that turned her into just another generic rescue-me princess (and even they don't acknowledge her - ever seen her image in any of the Disney Princess lineups?).

[–] Akira-Takahashi 13 years ago

I've been rereading these books for nostalgia purposes (I'm on the Diadam series next), and it reminded me of the movie and how shallow they made the characters. It's easy to hate movie Eilonwy and Taran for the above reasons. Even though Taran is basically the most un-butchered character in the movie, aside from Gurgi's basic personality, he's still difficult to watch.

Eilonwy is a very different character. As the above poster said, headstrong, independent female characters were virtually nonexistant in literature for the time - the closest rival in fantasy that I can think of being Eowyn from The Lord of the Rings. Eilonwy is a more interesting character in the books, aside from being a chatter-box who speaks in simile - a quirk that was cut from the film.

It is actually Eilonwy who takes the sword from the dungeon, which was not in the Horned King's place to begin with, and realizing it to be an enchanted sword, she won't even allow Taran to touch it. She is also shown to be particularly wise, a decent archer, and doesn't observe social norms very well. TV tropes labels her as a cloud cuckoolander, which fits quite well.

If you really want to see a butchered character with zero development, though, look no further than Fflewder Fflam, the bard whose harp strings snap when he lies. This is a character who scarecely resembles his literary counterpart and who deserves much more than to be cast aside as pure comic relief.

[–] stayprettystockholm 12 years ago

I have to say, spunk and independence are probably 2 of the most overrated modern "virtues" ever.

She is very spunky and independant in the movie, yet still feminine. She doesnt need to be a warrior or an aloof snob to be "empowered". Look at the 3 classic princesses, they are by far the strongest female role models of the Disney Princesses and they didn't need to refuse help or be sassy to be cool.

and once again, teens whining? how UNHEARD OF! Oh wait... *looks over at Belle, Ariel, Jasmine, Merida...)

Just a wild guess, but do you claim to be a feminist?

http://tinyurl.com/b3pscuu Lol Kstew haters

[–] sunrise_md2000 10 years ago

If by "feminist" you mean virulent man-hater who thinks embryos should be ripped from wombs just because we can, no. You appear to have made an assumption about me that has zero to do with the subject at hand, and let that color your opinion of my comment.

I appreciate stories that feature strong heroines. In the original book series, Eilonwy is clever, resourceful, practical, and brave. As the female counterpart to Taran's role in the bildungsroman that is the Prydain series, she also has a crucial character development. In the first book she is often obnoxious, untactful, oversensitive, outspoken to a fault, and unrelentingly stubborn. If you know her history, all these things can be argued to be defense mechanisms as she has grown up in a hostile environment.

By the end of the series she has mellowed into a mature young woman - still strong, brave, practical, etc. but without the brashness, rudeness, or cutting sarcasm. Some feminist critics of the series have, in fact, argued that she "fails" to be a progressive heroine because ultimately she sacrifices both her powerful heritage and immortality in order to stay with Taran in a stereotypical wife role. The fact that this role also makes her Queen of Prydain apparently is not enough for them. I think it's a ridiculous argument, as the self-sacrifice she undergoes is exactly the same type that Taran makes in the course of the series, but whatever. You can't please everyone. Personally I find the final direction of her character to be a beautiful typification of a strong and wise woman.

So, I disagree that she is spunky and independent in the movie. She is whiny, insipid, and annoying, in ways that cannot be blamed on her history but were simply decisions made by the screenwriters. I agree that she need not be a warrior or a snob to be empowered and she is neither in the books - she is involved in battle only very briefly, and only because she refuses to stay behind when her friends are in peril; as far as snobbery, Taran is the one obsessed with status and she is the voice of reason to his nonsense. I am, in fact, irritated at the modern film trope that as long as you let a female character swing a sword or toss some arrows that automatically makes her a strong character. It's cliched, stupid, and an insult to women to imply that the ability to chop people's heads off makes women "just as good" as men.

[–] PineappleWineapple 14 years ago

I'll admit they didn't develop much but no one did. This movie has some great strengths, and plot development isn't one of them. Taran doesn't constantly say "I want to be a warrior" he just tries to be, and briefly suceeeds when he and Eilonwy escape. Eilonwy never whines about the situation, she bitches once ("How dare you take his side"), and she cries once (same scene, and for about two seconds) As for their voices, they're way more distinctive than the generic voices the heroes and heroines of the ninties Disney musicals had. Il ike their voices.

[–] chiibiprincess 13 years ago

I haven't read the books but I thought they were both adorable. D:

Her character as portrayed on the film was simply a travesty, a hack job by Disney that turned her into just another generic rescue-me princess

"Generic rescue me-princess"?
Um no?
As I recall, she was the one who had to rescue THE BOY, so I don't know where you got that....lol
"But it's a ROCK!"
"I KNOW IT'S A ROCK!"

[–] Akira-Takahashi 13 years ago

I wouldn't go as far as to call her a generic rescue me-princess, but Disney did her a great disservice by destroying her character quirks and dumbing her down. Sure she manages to get Taran out of his cell, but in the books she also proceeds to single-handedly rescue Fflewder, and also retrieves the magic sword from the barrow. It was changed in the film so that her usefulness basically ran out the second Taran was free. After all, it was he who fought their way out the castle in the film, killing the point of the sword in the first place and also allowing Taran the glimpse of heroism he wasn't supposed to have yet.

During the first two books, Eilonwy is a lot more resourceful than Taran, and he's very dependent on both she and Fflewder to get him out of problems. Both Eilonwy and Fflewder had their brain cells fried so that Taran could be a much bigger character than he was meant to be.

[–] sunrise_md2000 12 years ago

Yes. This.

chiibiprincess, if you like strong heroines, do yourself a favor and read the books. Then come back and tell us if you still think this film does Eilonwy any justice.

[–] CosmosX9 12 years ago

Eilonwy was okay, but Taran was a lot worse in my opinion. XD

"Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!"

[–] stayprettystockholm 12 years ago

Wow, young teens whining- NEVER HEARD OF THAT HAPPENING, EVER. lol!

Taran grows into a better, braver, more mature person who realises courage isn't determined by your wanting to go into battle or wielding a sword but doing the right thing. Eilonwy is snippy, yes, but she's a princess, and didn't want to put up with any sexist 'tude from Taran. They grow to like each other.

http://tinyurl.com/b3pscuu Lol Kstew haters

[–] Livana_Faolan 9 years ago

I agree with your assessment of Taran and Eilonwy. The thing that bugs me most about Taran is the way he treats Gurgi. And Eilonwy? To me, she's pretty much useless. She just stands by and yells things like, "Taran, look out! Taran, be careful! Oh, no! Taran!" Stop standing there like a useless twit and do something, Princess!

I suppose I've been, "spoiled," by female characters like Buffy ("Buffy the Vampire Slayer"), Selene ("Underworld"), and Xena ("Xena: Warrior Princess"). You know, female characters who are strong and capable; who pick up a sword and join the fight ... even lead the fight.

"Never mind walking a mile in my shoes. Try thinking a day in my head."