MovieChat Forums > American Ninja (1985) Discussion > Another genius decision I noticed when r...

Another genius decision I noticed when re-watching this masterpiece.


The decision to stage the final sword fight sequence in the watery pond garden. Why on earth did the black star ninja decide this as his stage of battle? Aesthetically it comes accross as absolutely brilliant on the camera, with the water splashing in between the sword strikes and blocks. I'm guessing this was choreographer Steve Lamberts idea, considering that on the Blu-Ray commentery he discusses the staging of many of these battle sequences. He doesn't address this particular one on the commentery though, and why the setting for the final battle was staged in water, but it's just another brilliant nuance that sets this film in a league of it own.

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Oh man, I just realized that it's also symbolic of the area and environment where Joe's step-father worked. It's almost like they are having a battle on his turf, to symbolize that the Black Star Ninja killed him earlier and now the water garden is symbolic of that. Now Joe can also perish in this environment or revenge his step father in this same environment. That is so deep. I'm not sure if the film makers even intended that, but that is on the level of Shakespeare. I told you guys that this film is a genuine masterpiece!

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Oh, wow, nice analysis bad_habitt! I didn't think of that before. But, hey, since you've been listening to the audio commentary for this movie, i'm dying to find out how it is. Was it engaging? Any good stories told behind the camera?

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I loved it. The only thing that didn't get mentioned was music score. Apart from that it was everything you'd want it to be. Lots of surprises.

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Fingers crossed that the new commentary mentions the score!

Signature: To any BluRay/DVD distribution company: please release No Retreat No Surrender sequels on BluRay!

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Fingers crossed that the new commentary mentions the score!

Has it been confirmed that it is in fact a new commentary? Really hope so.

The decision to stage the final sword fight sequence in the watery pond garden. Why on earth did the black star ninja decide this as his stage of battle? Aesthetically it comes accross as absolutely brilliant on the camera, with the water splashing in between the sword strikes and blocks. I'm guessing this was choreographer Steve Lamberts idea, considering that on the Blu-Ray commentery he discusses the staging of many of these battle sequences. He doesn't address this particular one on the commentery though, and why the setting for the final battle was staged in water, but it's just another brilliant nuance that sets this film in a league of it own.

I have no doubt that Steve Lambert would claim it was his idea if you asked him.

Anyway, not to burst your bubble, but there really wasn't anything new, brilliant, or genius about it. This sword fight in water had already been done (and much more impressively) during the opening sequence of Cannon's very own first ninja film, "Enter the Ninja" four years earlier. The black ninja Hasegawa (Sho Kosugi) and the white ninja Cole (doubled by Mike Stone) square off in water amdist a waterfall. Water splashing, swords crossing, it's all there. Mike Stone was the fight choreographer on the film and was also the true fight choreographer of American Ninja (not Steve Lambert as he himself falsely and boastfully claims), so this was simply Stone redoing something they'd done before in the previous ninja film he'd worked on for Cannon.

Truth be told "American Ninja" is in many ways a hodge-podge of re-used stuff, ideas, and music from Cannon's Ninja Trilogy (Enter the Ninja, Revenge of the Ninja, Ninja III: The Domination), The Octagon, and The Master TV series... Don't get me wrong, that's not a putdown. It's actually a big part of why I like the film, particularly the fact that it still had some of the same sound and style of Cannon's Ninja Trilogy. The same cannot be said of the ultra-silly cartoony sequels.

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You make some interesting points, especially now that we know the film had very rushed post-production which is probably the reason why it has bits of cannon music (mission in action etc) edited over several scenes.

It would be good if maybe a movie podcast out there interviewed one of the many sound or video editors from the production. Then we would really understand the full production - however we now know enough where we can connect the dots ourselves anyway.

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It was and still is one of the best sword fight duels of all time. In fact, the series Cobra Kai played homage to this scene in the water when Chozen fought Silver at the end of last season

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