I thought this film was brilliant and after watching it I decided to look further into the Mutiny on the Bounty. I've been reading the book on which the film is based 'Captain Bligh and Mr. Christian' and discovered that part of this film is historically incorrect. In the film, when the ship leaves Tahiti Bligh announces the they'll sail around the Cape Horn. The men’s reaction is to say "you've gone mad, you'll kill us all!". The film then uses this as one of the reasons when the men mutinied. However in reality this never happened, after leaving Tahiti the Bounty sailed west towards the Indian Ocean.
Also at the end of the film it says some believe Fletcher Christian died on the Pitcairn Island and others that he returned to England. When the fact is it's been clearly documented that he was murdered on Pitcairn Island by one of the Tahitian men, this took place in 1793. Christian was shot in the head, his last words were "Oh, dear" and then he was butchered with an axe.
"When the fact is it's been clearly documented that he was murdered on Pitcairn Island by one of the Tahitian men" yeh. I thought this was also strange. Maybe they didn't know this when the film was created.
I wanted to also ask how did you find out that he was shot in the head and axed to death? I did know he died by natives but not in that manner. Source me please Thanks.
Nearly all of the accounts of what occured on Pitcairn after the mutineers landed there are based on stories told by John Adams (AKA Alexander Smith) to sailors from various ships that landed there while he was still alive.
At first, he was reluctant to talk (he may have been worried about the possibility of being hauled back to England and hung), and after that, his story seemed to change from visit to visit. However, after reading about a half dozen books on the subject, I agree that the demise of Christian as described above is most likely accurate. Rumors of him somehow making his way back to England were sparked by a strange encounter Peter Heywood had with a man he said looked like Christian, but who fled when he approached him.
Among the books I've read:
The Bounty - Caroline Alexander She avoids speculation; the facts she cites are all well documented. She also goes into detail about the efforts of the Christian and Heywood families to vindicate them at the expense of Bligh.
Captain Bligh and Mr. Christian - Richard Hough I enjoyed this one as well. If I recall correctly, this is the one that dealt with the notion that Bligh and Christian had had an affair on a previous voyoage, and Christian's rejection of Bligh's advances on the Bounty led to Bligh "abuse" of Christian - an interesting idea, but there is absolutely no evidence of this. Otherwise, I thought the book was pretty good.
Sir John Barrow - The Mutiny Aboard HMS Bounty This was written in 1831 by someone who was alive at the time of the mutiny, so his viewpoints reflect prevailing attitudes.
Glynn Christian - Fragile Paradise This was written by a descendant of Fletcher Christian - obviously so, as he misses no opportunity to snipe at Bligh (Bligh had his faults, but in my opinion, Christian was the real villian). Well worth reading, though.
John Toohey - Captain Bligh's Portable Nightmare This deals almost entirely with the extraordinary (in more ways than one!) open sea voyage to Timor after the mutiny. (This in itself would also make a good movie, as would the voyage and shipwreck of the Pandora, the ship sent to Tahiti to seek the mutineers.)
Sven Wahlroos - Mutiny and Romance in the South Seas Interesting for several reasons. First of all, it's completely chonological, so it describes the various parties whereabouts simultaneously. Secondly, it's written by a professional psychologist, so there is plenty of centuries-after-the-fact armchair analysis. Finallt, the second half of the book is a Bounty encylopedia, so it provides a handy reference if you want to look up a particular person or place.
Finally, the Nordhoff and Hall Bounty Trilogy is great reading. It's fairly accurate, but I think it is also slanted against Bligh.
I've never located copies of either of the two full first hand accounts of the mutiny, by Bligh and Boatswain's Mate James Morrison. Both are heavily cited (well, duh!). Morrison, who was convicted and pardoned, had quite the axe to grind with Bligh. I have no doubt that portions of each of these accounts must be taken with a grain of salt.
As ugly as Pitcairn's early history was, recents events are even worse:
You can still get one of Bligh's accounts - it's called "The Bounty Mutiny" and is published in the UK by Penguin Classics. For £7.99, it's a goldmine of information, containing not only Bligh's own narrative, but also a transcript of the court-martial of the surviving mutineers, correspondance between Bligh and Christian's brother, Bligh's original orders and various other documents.
If you can find a copy at your local library or on eBay (as it's sadly out of print), I'd also recommend Gavin Kennedy's biography "Captain Bligh: the Man and his Mutinies".
His book is online and I have read parts of it but don't care for on-line reading so I have just ordered a copy from my local bookstore. It is expected in one to two weeks.
Sir John Barrow was alive (1764-1848), yes, but more importantly he was the Second Secretary of the Admiralty from 1804 to 1844. Being an American, I am certainly not as up on these things as the Brits, but this man sounds like he should have been able to make a very good evaluation of the mutiny. He is harshly critical of Bligh from what I read of his work.
While the families of Christian and Heywood defended them, it certainly is also true that Bligh had the entire weight of the British Navy on his side. Mutineers were not popular.
Despite this, Bligh did not carry the day with public opinion.
I've almost finished reading 'Captain Bligh and Mr. Christian - Richard Hough', and there's no mention of an affair. Maybe it's been written somewhere else, but personally I’ve never seen any evidence to suggest that it would be true. Does anyone know if either Fletcher’s son or grandson ever went back to England to meet the Christian family?.
From a review on amazon.com: "the author saves his blockbuster thesis for the last chapter. He argues that the crusty Captain Bligh and Spencer[sic] Christian were really gay lovers and this explains the combustibility and passions that came into play. Bligh according to this view was jealous of Christian's love affair with the Tahitian girl he later fathered three children with. The author offers not one shred of evidence for this, not one shred, and says as much in the final pages of the book."
Genealogy records indicate that all of Fletcher Christian's children and grandchildren died in the South Pacific. I haven't come across any stories of them visiting England.
However, this movie is much closer to history than "Mutiny on the Bounty" (1962, w/Brando and Howard) as far as the portrayal of Bligh and the causes of the mutiny are concerned.
Bligh was not the sadistic monster he was shown to be in earlier films. While strict and gruff in manner, there is no indication that he enjoyed punishing his men or watching them suffer. And the other men were moved to mutiny not so much because of Bligh's tyranny, but because they got used to loafing around Tahiti and having sex with the natives. They resented being forced back to work by Bligh when the ship left port.
I flipped through a book on the history of the Royal Navy until the 19th century.
It spent a few pages discussing the Bounty incident. It summed Bligh up as this -he was a brilliant seaman and unmatched navigator who simply lacked people skills. When you added this to Fletcher Christian's moodiness (he was described has being prone to very severe mood swings. He could go from extreme happiness to extreme depression, and vice versa, in a very short span of time) and the small size of the ship, it was a recipe for trouble.
IMO, the mutiny resulted from Fletcher Christian's inherent instability and desire to escape back to an idyllic life on Tahiti. This was compounded by Bligh's constant verbal abuse. Bligh did have a short fuse and was prone to exploding and giving severe dressings down. However, Bligh was the type of person who would unleash abuse on someone for a mistake and then declare the matter closed and move on. Once he was done screaming at someone, he pretty much declared the issue done and would forget the whole thing. It was like his verbal explosions -for him- kept him from stewing on matters. They were his release valve.
Christian, however, DID stew over matters. He brooded over Bligh's harangues until things reached the point of no return.
I think the real problem was the respective personalities and temperments of Bligh and Christian. They were simply not suited to be cooped up for such a long time on such a small ship.
Bligh really would have been much better suited for a voyage that would have been shorter in duration but that had a possibility of seeing combat or other such dangers. That would allow Bligh to really apply his skills as a seaman and the crew would be focused.
If you watch the Clark Gable version in 1935. you see that many of the men were pressed into service who did not want to go. Going out to sea in in the early days meant dying at sea or getting scurvy. I understand that Lt. Bligh had sailed with Captain Cook-That is not mentioned in the movie. By this time men knew that they were not going to fall of the edge of the world but you still had the cutthroat element among men. Having taught junior high school for three years I know how hard it was to discipline the unruly.
P.S. Did the Liam Neeson character(Churchill) get hung?
Not for the first time, the 1935 film gets it wrong!
All of the Bounty's crew were volunteers: there had been two pressed men, but both had deserted before the Bounty sailed. In peacetime, it was pretty common (and easy) to avoid the press, as there were usually enough unemployed sailors around to fill ships' companies. A long voyage like the Bounty's would not be a popular billet for some, so several of the volunteers also deserted along with the pressed men once word of their destination leaked out, but all those who sailed with the Bounty were there because they wanted to be.
Churchill was killed on Tahiti by Matthew Thompson,one of the other mutineers.
Another thing to remember is that in that life in those days was rather harsh -especially for those in less than fortunate financial means, as the enlisted crew of the Bounty tended to be. Thus, life in the Royal Navy did have some appealing factors. There was shelter, food and pay. Even if none of those three items could be considered luxurious by contemporary standards, it would likely have been better than the living situations of some of the men ashore. (Mind you, in time of war the prospects for pay increased greatly. There was a good chance and opportunity for getting a share of prize ships which translated into some decent wealth).
I believe I read somewhere that Bligh didn't want anyone in his crew to be from a press gang if he could avoid it. He realized that it was going to be a long voyage and he wanted as good a crew as he could get. Thus he made a concerted effort to have his crew consist of all volunteer men (i.e. men who had voluntarily joined the navy).
When it comes to discipline on Bligh's ship, he was definitely more humane than many of his contemporaries. People tend to forget that the discipline was VERY harsh in the Royal Navy in that era. All of the crew was aware of that fact and had presumably sailed under harsh captains. Nothing Bligh would do could really shock them.
In comparison, Bligh was much more restrained in his use of punishment and more advanced in his dealings with the crew. He, as previously stated, sailed with Captain Cook and learned much from that experience. He believed in making sure the men ate sauerkraut regularly as a preventative against scurvy. He also believed in having the men exercise regularly by having a period of dancing everyday. (He even specifically added a fiddle player to the crew for this specific purpose). This was far ahead of many of his contemporaries.
As well, when he did punish men it was no harsher than what any other captain would do at that time. In fact, it was even more lenient in some aspects. A prime example is the case of the three seamen who attempted to desert the ship in Tahiti. Yes, Bligh had them flogged. However, once they were flogged he declared that official punishment had been given out and the matter was therefore closed. Now, when you compare that to what he COULD have done, that was a slap on the wrist. For the crime of desertion, he [u]could[/u] have had the three put in irons until they reached the West Indies. Once there, they would have been court-martialed, found guilty (undoubtedly, given the fact that the case against them was really unquestioned), and then hung.
Bligh could have easily done this and not an officer or man would have really questioned it as it would have been done in accordance with naval regulations. Instead, Bligh just ordered that they be given a -severe- flogging and then declared the matter concluded as far as he was concerned. If the three had any brains, they should have realized that Bligh had just given them back their lives and been grateful. (Of the three, two of them -Charles Churchill and John Millward joined the mutiny. The third, William Muspratt, stayed loyal to Bligh, but had to remain on the ship for lack of room on the launch. Churchill was killed on Tahiti. Millward was taken back to England and was hung for his part in the mutiny. Muspratt was sentenced to hang, but received a pardon when evidence as revealed that had taken no part in the mutiny).
So, by all account, Bligh was a much better captain than he's generally given credit for. His tragic fault, it seems, was that he just wasn't a good people person and thus not really the ideal sort for a long voyage on a small ship.
One interesting "what if", is to ponder what would have happened if the Bounty had in fact been able to make it around Cape Horn on the outward passage. They would have reached Tahiti far sooner, and -once there- would not have had to stay so long to await transplanting the breadfruit trees. Discipline would not have broken down, with all the attendant problems when they put to sea again. Instead, they would have reached Tahiti with a sense of acomplishment and pride (a fast trip outwards and making it past the Horn), which would have carried over once they left Tahiti following a much shorter stay. (They might have stayed a month. Long enough to transplant the breadfruit and replenish stocks, as well as allow the crew some recreational time ashore; but not long enough for them to put down roots there.) Then, morale and performance would have been much better on the way to the West Indies. Once there, tensions would have pretty much dropped as everyone would realize that it was just a matter of making it back across the Atlantic and they'd be home.
Good post! I agree, Bligh was a lot more humane and enlightened than he's often given credit for. I've always found it interesting that the men who chose to risk everything by going with Bligh in the open boat (nearly half the crew - that must have been a nasty shock for Christian when he realized his mutiny wasn't as popular as he'd imagined) were by and large the older, more experienced members of the crew who would have been understood Bligh's worth as a captain and could make allowances for his behaviour.
To develop your "what if" a bit - Admiral Lord Lewin wrote the preface to the catalogue of the 200th anniversary exhibition of the mutiny at the National Maritime Museum, in which he suggested that if Bligh had successfully returned to England with the Bounty, he would have been the natural choice for command of the 1791 expedition to the NW coast of America (rather that the less experienced George Vancouver), and the capital of British Columbia might have ended up being called Bligh!
Not only did at least half the crew opt to go with Bligh, but even those that remained on the Bounty weren't all a part of Christian's party. They would definitely have gone with Bligh had there been room.
This made it even harder for Christian as he now had to be concerned about having men on board who could conceivably attempt to retake the ship from him. If nothing else, he realized he had to put them ashore at Tahiti.
The men Christian was left with were generally less bright and much less disciplined. It explained why the initial settlement at Pitcairn Island fell apart so swiftly.
Overall, Bligh's only real mistake in performance in the voyage was letting discipline fall apart in Tahiti. It made the return trip that much harder. The only other thing he could be faulted for was his aforementioned lack of people skills. However, when compared to his attributes and the comparative harshness of his contemporaries, his crankiness is more than allowed for.
Bligh might have been sent on the 1791 expedition. However, that would have depended on when he returned from the Tahiti mission. He may well have wanted a little more time at home before leaving on another long mission.
Bligh might have been sent on the 1791 expedition. However, that would have depended on when he returned from the Tahiti mission. He may well have wanted a little more time at home before leaving on another long mission.
I doubt it. Bligh was a Navy man - I can't believe he'd have passed up a promotion to post Captain (very rare in peacetime) and command of a prestigious mission for the sake of a few extra months' domestic bliss (on half pay, with no sure prospect of his next appointment).
Of the three, two of them -Charles Churchill and John Millward joined the mutiny. The third, William Muspratt, stayed loyal to Bligh, but had to remain on the ship for lack of room on the launch. Churchill was killed on Tahiti. Millward was taken back to England and was hung for his part in the mutiny. Muspratt was sentenced to hang, but received a pardon when evidence as revealed that had taken no part in the mutiny.
Muspratt was a mutineer. Several witnesses saw him armed with a musket. He was not pardoned due to exonerating evidence, but due to a technicality: he was not allowed to call co-defendants as witnesses for his defense.
If that's the case, then Muspratt was likely the luckiest man in the Royal Navy. Essentially, he was the only one of the Bounty mutineers to live to tell the tale back in England. All the others were either hung, gone down with Pandora, or condemned to exile on Pitcairn Island.
I simply can't understand why any of the mutineers opted to remain on Tahiti, when Christian was leaving for the last time. They had to know they'd certainly be hung if caught there. Perhaps they -cynically- figured that Bligh and his loyalists were all dead by then. (Either drowned, dead from exposure, etc) Thus, there would be no chance for them to ever report the mutiny to authorities and they'd be safe. They clearly hadn't figured on Bligh's navigational and leadership skills. (When you think of it, Bligh was truly at his best in a crisis. It allowed his better professional qualities to emerge and tamped down his temperment. In the meantime, his subordinates had bigger things to worry about than Bligh screaming at them). Christian, however, at least had the sense to realize Tahiti was the last place in the world they should be staying. He figured that even if Bligh and his men had all been lost, the Royal Navy would eventually show up. If the Bountydidn't arrive in the West Indies or England, then eventually (once the Admiralty realized that the ship wasn't merely late due to bad weather or some other problem) another ship would be sent out to try and locate her or her crew. At the very least, they would try and find out what had happened. And, the VERY first place a British ship would come looking for the Bounty would be Tahiti. Christian knew the only men for whom Tahiti offered true safety were the non-participants/loyalists who'd been prevented from leaving with Bligh for lack of room in the launch. Anyone else was a dead man.
From what I understood of their feelings many of the mutineers truly regretted taking part in the mutiny, and they probably felt that they should face justice for what they had done
I simply can't understand why any of the mutineers opted to remain on Tahiti
I think you've alluded to it yourself in other posts. They weren't very bright.
Also, from an eighteenth century perspective a trip to the South Seas must have seemed like a trip to the Moon. If you weren't very imaginative, it would be easy to convince yourself that you were as far from the Royal Navy's grasp as it was possible to be. They'd condemned Bligh to almost certain death, and thought they were going to rule the roost in their colony on Tahiti (despite the fact that they'd made such a dog's breakfast of things on Tubuai).
Certainly Christian was smart enough to appreciate that the Navy would come looking eventually, but I think that those who stayed on Tahiti just weren't capable of looking that far ahead.
(When you think of it, Bligh was truly at his best in a crisis. It allowed his better professional qualities to emerge and tamped down his temperment. In the meantime, his subordinates had bigger things to worry about than Bligh screaming at them)
This is a good point. For example, during the protracted and ultimately unsuccessful attempt to round Cape Horn (per Admiralty orders), the crew worked their tails off, while Bligh made sure that they were kept as warm as possible, had hot food, etc,. Had they run into constant storms after leaving Tahiti, it's possible that the mutiny may not have ever occurred.
Getting back to Muspratt, the details of his reprieve were quite a shock to me. I didn't know people got off on technicalities back then. He certainly was lucky. While technically a mutineer, he and Millward may have participated against their better judgement. They certainly weren't as gung ho as Churchill, Quintal, Mills, etc.
I think the reasons for remaining on Tahiti varied from man to man. Certainly some knew they had little to fear from a court martial (although they probably didn't expect to be treated as guitly on the Pandora's voyage). Others may have thought that if the launch was never heard from again, they might cook up a story and claim they were not involved. It's also likely that some never worried about looking that far ahead.
I think it be more likely that the people who stayed on Tahiti because they thought that Christian Fletcher wouldn't be able to set up a settlement anywhere or find a suitable or safe spot due to natives everywhere. Because before they left for picairn island they tried to settle somewhere else and it failed.
I'm watching the '35 version as we speak, and I'm just jumping on a couple of different Bounty version boards to see what's being said. If what everyone says is true, I can't think of an another example of an actual historical account being so distorted. I'm sure that the perception most people have today is one of Fletcher Christian as hero and Captain Bligh as evil tyrant when the truth is so much more complex. Just as a matter of interest, Charles Laughton appeared as Captain Bligh in a radio program from 1954 for the Suspense series called "The Revenge of Captain Bligh," and it chronicles his open boat voyage. It's really entertaining and presents a more sympathetic picture of Bligh than the '35 movie version.
Yes, poor Bligh! A peerless navigator and seaman, and a pretty enlightened captain to boot: shame he didn't have as many powerful friends and relatives as Christian and others.
I'm fascinated to hear of "The Revenge of Captain Bligh" - that's a new one to me, and I'd love to hear it. Too much to hope it's available as a recording or download, I suppose?
Revenge of Captain Bligh with Charles Laughton is available on cassette or cd, along with an episode of the Basil Rathbone-Sherlock Holmes radio show, cassette is only $2.98, cd is $5.00. Look for it under Cassette W1050.
On this site, you can download for free the Campbell Playhouse version of Mutiny on the Bounty, with Orson Welles as Captain Bligh and Joseph Cotten as Fletcher Christian.
Personally, I think they felt Bligh wasn't going to make it and they were on an tropical island with half naked women. Would you want to remain on a ship for months or an island with breast looking at you:-)
In comparison, Bligh " believed in making sure the men ate sauerkraut regularly as a preventative against scurvy. He also believed in having the men exercise regularly by having a period of dancing everyday. (He even specifically added a fiddle player to the crew for this specific purpose). This was far ahead of many of his contemporaries.
You raise an example of how Bligh got it wrong and why the mutiny.
The enforced dancing. It was done for the best of motives and it should have been good for everyone. But by forcing it on the crew, he built up resentment.
Now had he brought the men on deck of an evening, maybe with a bit of drink, and told the fiddler to play lively tunes, the compulsion would probably not be needed.
So my take on the mutiny is Bligh, a good and able seaman, just went about things the wrong way. It didn't help that the crew had just had 5 months in paradise and were leaving to go back to ... what? a dull cold England and working for a living?
If Captain Bligh had any faults it was his leniency. He should have hung Churchill and the other two deserters. All three who were mutineers. And Bligh did go on to a successful career in the RN. The British conceit and arrogance reaches a high water mark with their navy. They like to sing songs claiming they "Rule the Seas". And while they tried to colonize the world and control free trade over the oceans with brutality and violence toward other nations they do hold their navy in somewhat high regard. Bligh was promoted to Vice Admiral. A very high and respected position.
The mutineers were mostly uneducated classless scum. Fighting for sexual favors of the kidnapped Tahitians. Killing the Tahitian men over jealousy and perceived White/British superiority. The cunning and deceit shown to the Natives and the feud factions that formed and especially the still and drunkenness of the mutineers caused the eventual demise of the mutineers colony.
As far as Adams goes, his changing versions must be questioned. If one man out of many survives, who do you think was killing the others? Oh they were all bad and he survived while they tried to kill him? Yeah sure. Their descendents still live on Pitcairn. The brutal violent actions of the mutineers society shows the level of civilization of these people. Unlike Bligh they were a drunken sexually uncontrolled mob.
Captain Bligh was by no means the sadistic tyrant that popular history has made him out to be. He was VERY reserved with the lash in an age when captains could authorize floggings that would and did kill men. If you want to read about tyrants you couldn't go wrong with sadists like Hugh Pigot of the HMS Hermione (who was murdered by his crew in one of the navy's most violent mutinies - the crew turned the ship over to the Spanish and went into hiding but were hunted down by a vengeful navy. Interestingly, the ex-Hermione was recaptured by a ship that modern naval fiction would make legendary - HMS Surprise!) and the Pandora's own Edward Edwards was no saint.
Bligh didn't have good people skills but, frankly, his 'bark' was literally worse than his 'bite'.
Another problem was he had to wait for the Breadfruit to mature on Tahiti so discipline went right out the window as the men were free to indulge themselves for several months on what was then THE island paradise. Of course when they had to leave there were A LOT of hurt feelings.
Tom516
"It is not enough to like a film. You must like it for the right reasons." - Pierre Rissient
"The British conceit and arrogance reaches a high water mark with their navy. They like to sing songs claiming they "Rule the Seas". And while they tried to colonize the world and control free trade over the oceans with brutality and violence toward other nations they do hold their navy in somewhat high regard."
As an American I take it you are saying this with tongue lodged firmly in cheek, yes? 😉
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Clearly documented? Something happening on a remote island in 1793? How and by who is it "clearly documented"? It's said his murder could have been faked. You don't know nothing for certain, it was a long time ago.
I thought one of the ones hanged was a boy who was 14 at the time of the mutiny. How would that be justice? Was Christian ever buried on Pitcarin Island?
Serving at sea was a young man's game in those days. A 14 year old aboard would not have been at all unusual. Bligh was just 16 when he first served at sea, and Heywood was 14. When the Bounty sailed, Bligh was only 33, and Christian just 23.
There has always been folk lore about Christians' return to England. The scene I find deplorable and an attempt to save Christian's image is when he leaves Tahiti after the mutiny. The Tahitian king correctly in the movie opposes Christian's actions but according to some accounts Christian takes the Tahitian natives by trickery or kidnapping. The men to work as basically hands or slaves, since Whites were superior (in British minds) and the women well for other purposes. They would not be allowed to leave nor would they want to. And considering the life they were leaving and the life they where forced into (as they discovered) who could blame them? Knowing the arrogance of the British (to be nice, I'll say at that time) the image of the Tahitian natives going willingly is an understandable myth. They were forced. And only British conceit would imagine any going freely. But then you lose the touching scene of the King allowing his daughter to leave and crying. Really they were purloined and his crying was after he discovered they were kidnapped.
After reading this thread I am kind of angry at the way Bligh has been portrayed. This comes as no surprise after seeing how historical figures have been portrayed such as Paul Revere, Max Baer, Billy the Kid, and Wyatt Earp just to name a few. Literature, cinema, and even history textbooks seem to twist history for no other reason than to make it more palatable.
The writers of textbooks, literature and cinema twist history according to their biases. They twist history to fit their world view and further a political agenda.
Awesome thread. So I gather from the many insightful posts that "The Bounty" took some liberties with the historical record. Just like to remind everyone that this is a dramatic work and even William Shakespeare took gross liberties with his source material when he created his plays for the sake of dramatic narrative effect.
BTW, I found this paragraph interesting:
"John Toohey - Captain Bligh's Portable Nightmare This deals almost entirely with the extraordinary (in more ways than one!) open sea voyage to Timor after the mutiny. (This in itself would also make a good movie, as would the voyage and shipwreck of the Pandora, the ship sent to Tahiti to seek the mutineers.) "
Yes, I think Hollywood should create other movies exploring peripheral narratives to the original legend and give movie fans a more rounded experience of the events surrounding the mutiny on The Bounty
Very good thread and summed up beautifully, as Bligh was a matchless navigator but failing in social skills. The 1935 movie was much to blame in making Bligh a villain, but there was a precedent. When Bligh returned to England, he went through a court martial (as was de rigeur for all captains who lost their ships)but was exonerated and feted for his navigational exploits. However, Christian's brother, Edward, was a lawyer and managed to blacken Bligh's name in the public eye. Bligh himself, as mentioned earlier, went on to be a rear admiral and later, governor of New South Wales. He suffered two more mutinies- at Spithead and in New South Wales. At Spithead, there was an en masse mutiny on a number of ships, so he wasn't wholly responsible there but I imagine his poor people skills were responsible for the mutiny in New South Wales. Earlier posts correctly stated that Bligh was a lot more lenient than most naval commanders at the time (in fact he was only a lieutenant on the bounty, although in command)- obviously the sexual openess of the Tahitians was a factor for some in the mutiny (and it is said that the women were attracted to the British seaman because they were paler than their own men, which was thought to be godlike)but another reason is that the Bounty was too small and thus could not house a company of marines, one of whose duties it would have been, to protect the officers from possible mutiny from the crew.
The French haven't the nature for war. They'd rather eat and make love with their faces than fight.
Again, it just proves that there are several movies that could be made about Captain Bligh, especially those two other mutinies you mentioned in your post,lolandpete.
It's really a shame that Hollywood, with all of it's resources, refuses to think outside of the box. In the twenty five years since "The Bounty" was made, there could have been several movies made using the same props. locations , and even actors/actresses to further dramatise the events after the ones dramatized in "The Bounty".
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There has been such a pro-Bligh consensus here that I will repeat a couple of incidents reported by Sir John Barrow in his account of the mutiny.
"Bligh claimed there was some missing cheese. The cooper, Henry Hillbrart, informed him that the cask in question had been opened by the orders of Mr Samuel, his clerk, who acted also as steward, and the cheese sent on shore to his own house. Bligh, without making any further inquiry, immediately ordered the allowance of cheese to be stopped both for officers and men, until the deficiency should be made good, and threatened the cooper with a flogging if he said another word on the subject."
"Decaying pumpkins were fed to the men, and when complaints were reported to him, he flew into a rage and shouted 'I'll make you eat grass before I'm done with you.'"
I am writing for Barrow's book in the mail, to read more, but did Bligh cut the water ration for his men? but not for himself?
Another point is that Bligh appears to have punished men who were innocent. Food was vanishing from the Bounty and Bligh flogged sailors (and also accused Christian of stealing) but it seems that the Tahitians swam out to the Bounty and did the deed. As swimming this far was beyond what the English could normally do, they never considered that the Tahitians were much better swimmers.
Certainly erratic and arbitrary punishments might produce resentment where deserved punishments would not.
This is Sir John Barrow's conclusion on Bligh
"The melancholy effects which tyrannical conduct, harsh and opprobious language, ungovernable passion, and a worrying and harassing temper, on the part of naval commanders, seldom fail to produce on the minds of those subject to their capricious and arbitrary command, are strongly exemplified in the cause and consequences of the mutiny in the Bounty."
There was some discussion about how Christian died.
I don't think there is any evidence at all. John Adams told several different stories, but
The visitors in 1814 (25 years after the mutiny) remarked on how well the inhabitants spoke English and on their good grammer.
But Alexander Smith was probably not educated.
How to explain this?
Two possibilities occur to me.
The man who identified himself as John Adams was not Alexander Smith, but an educated man.
Or an educated man survived until sometime close to 1814 regardless of what Adams said, or perhaps was still hiding on the island in 1814.
Who could that educated man have been? The best bet is Fletcher Christian. He might have palmed himself off as Adams or simply hid when ships approached. No one would have really known what a fifty year old Christian would have looked like, certainly not these sea captains. Christian would have known they would have arrested him if he gave his real name. But John Adams? He was not an officer let alone the leader of the mutiny--just a small fry. It might have been a good gamble that they would leave him be.
The visitors in 1814 (25 years after the mutiny) remarked on how well the inhabitants spoke English and on their good grammer.
The man who identified himself as John Adams was not Alexander Smith, but an educated man. Who could that educated man have been?
There's no controvery or mysteries left. One of the women left 2 accounts of the strife on Pitcairn. She wrote them when everyone had abandoned the island for Norfolk Is. So she had nothing to gain, or hide.
The Bounty was burnt so Christian didn't make it back to England.
Adams/Smith must have had goodness in him for the women to protect him with their bodies enmasse. He later proved this by pacifying the community and instilling christian values.
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The melancholy effects which tyrannical conduct, harsh and opprobious language, ungovernable passion, and a worrying and harassing temper, on the part of naval commanders, seldom fail to produce on the minds of those subject to their capricious and arbitrary command, are strongly exemplified in the cause and consequences of the mutiny in the Bounty." ___________________________________