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Need science people to explain consequences of a second star


Is there anyone out there with an astronomy or similar science educational background?

What would be the solar system consequences of Jupiter turning into a star?

I assume Jupiter's gravity remains essentially the same so no problem there.

My concern is the strength of the Jupiter star on earth, that is, the extra light, heat, solar flares, et al. One thought is that earth will not have a nighttime as we know now, but instead nighttime will resemble dusk, which I think comes before twilight, when it is still light enough to see but not to read a book, at least not read easily.

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Bear in mind it was a mini sun, and it was created artificially by omnipotent aliens who did it by design to warm the surface of Europa (which was in close proximity to it, much closer than Mercury is to the sun). Assuming Jupiter continued to orbit our main sun as usual, it doesn't mean Earth would be permanently in daylight. It takes Jupiter nearly 12 years to make a full orbit of the sun so there would be times when it would only be seen in the day sky and even times when it would be fully eclipsed by the sun and not be seen at all.

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Exactly. Compared to the Sun, Jupiter is 1/10 the size and between 5 and 10 times farther away from the Earth depending on where we are in our orbits. Turning Jupiter into a star would mess with the nighttime on Earth but not even as much as they show in the movie. If you lived in a city it wouldn't do much of anything, and anywhere else it would be like the reflected light from the Moon. There wouldn't be any problems with CMEs or flares or the like because Jupiter would be too small and too far away. Jupiter's gravity would be the same, presumably (unless the aliens did something to its mass when they ignited it), so it wouldn't have any effect on Earth's orbit or on the orbits of anything around.

Maybe Jupiter-as-star would disturb some bodies in the asteroid belt and send something into our neck of the woods, but that's about it.

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They didn't go into changes in the mass or density of the new sun, but when they showed the picture of it it just wasnt "like the reflected light from the Moon"! There was an obvious huge increase in mass. There would be major, if not catastrophic changes to the earth. Now maybe the rectangle Gods figured that out and adjusted some of the physics that would take place! As far as nighttime? They pretty well explained that night was gone forever. "children will be born in a world of two suns. They will never know a sky without them. You can tell them that you remember when there was a pitch black sky with no bright star, and people feared the night".
So by the scenes with the moon and the new sun, It was as bright as those moments just before the sun breaks the horizon. Just one example of ecological chaos would be the thousands of plants and animals that rely on the night (not twilight)to survive.

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I think Floyd was talking figuratively at the end when he was talking about the pitch black night sky and children never knowing a sky without two suns. The same way we don't always see our moon at night time, even though its still orbiting the Earth, there would still be periods of months when the Jupiter sun would not be seen at night depending on the orbital positions of it and the Earth in relation to the main sun.

When the Jupiter sun was shown in Earth's sky at the end of the film, it wasn't nearly as big as the main sun. It appeared bigger than Jupiter had been but it had a kind of hazy halo around it (presumably because it had not long exploded into being and the gases given off in the explosion were illuminated by it thus making it appear bigger than it actually was). I got the impression it was like a little spotlamp in the corner of a big room that was already lit by a big ceiling light. If it was on its own in the sky, it wouldn't be as bright as our usual daytime.

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Actually, there would have to be a huge increase in mass to both trigger fusion and make it continue. if Jupiter's current mass could ignite it would be a star already. If it were somehow ignited with its current mass, it would not start continuous fusion. So the monoliths had to be adding mass to make it ignite. Thus, Jupiter would have to have become much more massive.

Then again, since its mass increased, it would seem that would likely disrupt the orbits of many of its moons. Not to mention frying a number of closer moons.

Then again, we can always fall back on "magic aliens can do anything" excuses. So there is no right answer, I suppose.

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Then again, we can always fall back on "magic aliens can do anything" excuses. So there is no right answer, I suppose.


That has to be it because, as you point out, greatly increasing Jupiter's mass in order to jumpstart stellar ignition would destroy Europa, the very moon the aliens were trying to nurture.

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Jupiter's mass is 0.09% of Sol's. Assuming that mass followed the same process to generate heat and light (might not even be feasible because the resulting gravity probably isn't sufficient to force nuclear fusion), it would be barely noticeable.

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So I think it lives up to the landlord's intent. The new sun would be the lifegiver to those new worlds without having much of an impact on Earth - a solar system within our solar system. Or I guess it could be called a Jovar system within ...

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FYI, this was the passage from Clarke's book:

Fifty times more brilliant than the full Moon, Lucifer had transformed the skies of Earth, virtually banishing night for months at a time. Despite its sinister connotations, the name was inevitable; and indeed 'Light-bringer' had brought evil as well as good. Only the centuries and the millennia would show in which direction the balance tilted.

On the credit side, the end of night had vastly extended the scope of human activity, especially in the less-developed countries. Everywhere, the need for artificial lighting had been substantially reduced, with resulting huge savings in electrical power. It was as if a giant lamp had been hoisted into space, to shine upon half the globe. Even in daytime Lucifer was a dazzling object, casting distinct shadows.

Farmers, mayors; city managers, police, seamen, and almost all those engaged in outdoor activities – especially in remote areas – welcomed Lucifer; it had made their lives much safer and easier. But it was hated by lovers, criminals, naturalists, and astronomers.

The first two groups found their activities seriously restricted, while naturalists were concerned about Lucifer's impact upon animal life. Many nocturnal creatures had been seriously affected, while others had managed to adapt. The Pacific grunion, whose celebrated mating pattern was locked to high tides and moonless nights, was in grave trouble, and seemed to be heading for rapid extinction.

And so, it seemed, were Earth-based astronomers. That was not such a scientific catastrophe as it would once have been, for more than fifty per cent of astronomical research depended upon instruments in space or on the Moon. They could be easily shielded from Lucifer's glare; but terrestrial observatories were seriously inconvenienced by the new sun in what had once been the night sky.

The human race would adapt, as it had done to so many changes in the past. A generation would soon be born that had never known a world without Lucifer; but that brightest of all stars would be an eternal question to every thinking man and woman.

Why had Jupiter been sacrificed – and how long would the new sun radiate? Would it burn out quickly, or would it maintain its power for thousands of years– perhaps for the lifetime of the human race? Above all, why the interdiction upon Europa, a world now as cloud-covered as Venus?

There must be answers to those questions; and Mankind would never be satisfied until it had found them.


My people skills are fine. It's my tolerance of morons that needs work.

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it was a nice read!
thanks!

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I am not of 'Earth Science' (which is very lacking, dogmatic and 'guided' a lot by corporations, big money and the 'elite' powers that be to be trustworthy, not to mention it absolutely does not allow True Science to be even a tiny part of it - that being, of course, spirituality, as that is what existence consists of; The Great Spirit), but I can tell you something.

First consequence of a second sun (which most likely could not happen out of simply converting Jupiter into one - this would lead to SO many problems in any case, considering gravities, power triangles (hard to explain, but fundamental to solar systems and planets), people living on Jupiter's moons and so on, and so much chaos due to all kinds of shifts that even the actual sun might become somewhat unbalanced)..

Let's say there's a proper second sun that can come into the solar system as almost pure energy and then our sun's influence will 'activate' it (for the lack of better terminology).

There would have to be some kind of balance, or the solar system would just be basically destroyed and planets would fling far away from it. So we can imagine two suns 'orbiting' something inbetween them.

Of course, two suns could really not be that far from each other, because they would affect each other, so this kind of orbiting thing would be pretty necessary for any kind of balance. Can you imagine a sun orbiting a sun together with planets? How would the planets 'know' which sun to orbit, etc..? It couldn't work in any other way except the two suns basically being 'brothers' of sorts (I would call them 'sisters', but they are actuall expanding energy, so they are 'yang', male direction of energy)

This would create bigger forces to push the planets to much larger orbits, so nothing would have the same orbit as they used to. Some planets might be whisked away from the solar system, and other planets could take their places..

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..as people should know by know, we are in a 12-planet solar system, Pluto IS a planet, and the last planets have an almost vertical orbit, so they're harder to spot, plus, they're almost always 'behind something', which adds to the challenge. Earth's frog-perspective is pretty distorting, when you want to really see how things are in the Universe.

So orbits would change, this would affect atmospheres and magnetic fields of planets, which might shift even drastically, it would affect moons of planets and their orbits and so on.

Planets are not just some random hunks flying about in any which way, the sun actually keeps them in orbit, there are 'power triangles' they form with each other, and so on. Pluto is not a planet because it has been 'decreed' as such, it's a planet, because it performs the FUNCTIONS of a planet in our solar system. A wheel of a car does not stop being a wheel of a car just because a group of toddlers sitting in a sandbox decide so.

There would be upheavals and such, but in the end, after everything settles down to a balanced level, the solar system could still function as a solar system, just with lots of changes. If it lost some planets, it would just grab new planets to keep the balance. Of course overall the whole solar system would become much bigger than it is now, and solar flares might get much worse as well.

People would form strange cults about the second sun, some would call it the 'Sun of Truth and Justice' or whatnot. There are numerous physical, political, energetical and spiritual things that would happen. Basically the flows and travel routes would be disrupted and have to be 'rearranged' and all that.

Obviously, a typical Terran does not really think very Universally, so 'travel paths' might not even be on their 'radar', so to say, but I am just honestly answering what would happen if this solar system suddenly had a second sun.



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Another reason why converting an existing planet into a sun wouldn't work, is that the solar system would lose the planet, and another planet would be needed to fulfill its function. Losing a planet from basically 'middle' like that would definitely create problems, so I suspect Saturn would have to fulfill Jupiter's 'duties', so to say, and other planets would have to take on the outer planets' roles and so on. It would be a real mess.

There's more, but I am sure this is enough for now.

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