What if they fixed the music? - The Keep (1983) Discussion

[–] thedarklantern 11 years ago

The soundtrack is extremely dated, and pretty awesome, imo. The funny thing is, a lot of the directorial choices (the dry ice, the eerie blue lighting, the slo-mo running, etc) look more like they were made to complement the music, rather than the the other way around.(Or maybe that just shows how well the music synched up with the action on screen) The whole project almost feels (to me) like an extended music video, rather than an adaptation of a book.

What could perhaps be interesting is a version with no score at all, or with only some occasional ambient, minimalist cues, I wonder if it would mess up the pacing of what's happening on screen?

Alternatively, how about if they just reduced the volume of the soundtrack in the mix so it wasn't so pervasive and made it almost subliminal?

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[–] SCDeville 11 years ago

I'm not sure you can "fix" something that made a significant impact, like this movie did at the time (for the wrong reasons in this case). Anyway, from time to time I watch it again and I don't think I would like it to be fixed. It's one of those bad fliks you end up loving despite its ugliness. Same applies to wives and air supply music.

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[–] Hollowshape 11 years ago

I wish the film had this James Horner score:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWxaB-nfOas

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[–] ejnahan 10 years ago

One of Sean's arguably worst movies, and a job he took because of his love of his acting profession. These are surely two books that are still good to read after seeing the movies. I agree that this soundtrack combined with folk music would have set an even more authentic atmosphere. But, that crappy electronic score almost seemed to set the stage uniquely well as a horror story along side the participants own lives that was so out of place that they could hardly be expected to take the necessary steps. Whats done is done, yet I think that the world would be a more interesting place if whole movie remixes were as easy as viral videos.

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[–] LJ27 11 years ago

I am okay with Tangerine Dream's score to THE KEEP. However, if they are refusing to allow a DVD release over the score, I don't see why the film cannot be restored by someone else. Tangerine Dream is no John Williams.

Also, the trivia says Michael Mann refuses to allow THE KEEP to be released on DVD. How is he able to tell Paramount they cannot release a movie that I presume they own, unless Mann coughed up the $11 million budget from his own pocket (maybe he did). Apparently he disowned the film. Paramount probably lost all the trims from his original 3.5 hour cut of the film.

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[–] Koosh_King01 10 years ago

Yeah, they can just release a different cut credited to "Alan Smithee."

"I mean, really, how many times will you look under Jabba's manboobs?"

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[–] jpowell180 10 years ago

All due respect to John Williams, but replacing the Tangerine Dream score with his own would ruin the film.

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[–] FabioPirovano 11 years ago

This music FIT , If you can't appreciate TD score you can't appreciate the Movie

At least could be work with some Richard Wagner

"life is Chiaroscuro matter" Fabio

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[–] henrimaine 11 years ago

Tangerine Dream soundtrack was the best part of this strange experience.

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[–] loulou1992 11 years ago

I shouldnt but your a DICKMINDER... for saying that. How is this music dated, the rubbish you probably listen to today. This music and the band are still well received worldwide so no chance of this great music been removed at all, abd if they did id not bother watching it at all. Its the music of a film that gives it a feeling you get off it.

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[–] marlarkey 11 years ago

Why on earth would anyone want to redo Tangerine Dream ? It is awesome...

Are you suggesting they should redo the music on Chariots of Fire because its dated ? Or Bridge on the River Kwai ? Or The Great Escape ?

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[–] Mr_Blonde3 11 years ago

The music to "The Keep" is as synonymous to this film as Wang Chung is "To Live and Die in L.A." It's perfect. It's n anachronism, but it's perfect. The film is oddly addictive to begin with, but with the Tangerine Dream score, it's even more addictive. I could listen to the soundtrack and watch the movie all day (We owe most of it to you, Jurgen!)

And in retrospect, while synthesized, the Tangerine Dream soundtrack is entirely orchestral, so, IMHO, it does sound 80s, but dates the film a lot less than Wang Chung does in TLADILA, but both scores are perfect.

I love to love my Lisa.

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[–] loulou1992 11 years ago

Damn it why bring up to live and die in la soundtrack... Thats a movie and a soundtrack right there...

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[–] Mr_Blonde3 11 years ago

I'm not dissing the TLADILA soundtrack in the least. Hell, one of the first things I did after watching the film was go on ebay and get a cd of the soundtrack. (Nothing like tooling around in my Charger with the instrumental score that plays over Willem Dafoe's counterfeiting scene on the radio)

Just saying that both films have soundtracks that are synonymous with the films they were written for. TLADILA would suffer without it's soundtrack, and so, I believe, would this film.

They both date the films they were written for, because the 80s has a sound all unto it's own, but both soundtracks are flawless, and I'll be looking to add a CD of "The Keep"'s soundtrack to my collection soon.

I love to love my Lisa.

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[–] loulou1992 11 years ago

oh i love to live and die in la

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[–] erictopp 11 years ago

I didn't mind the music but was bugged by the overuse of the fog machine and slow-mo. I thought I was watching a bunch of early 80s music clips. ;)

Did you know: Michael Mann also used Tangerine Dream in the soundtrack for "Thief". This was nominated for a Razzie Awards for Worst Musical Score.

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[–] ghostgate2001 11 years ago

Well that's the thing with "The Keep" isn't it? It's a 1983 movie through and through. There was something of a blurring of the line around that time between the worlds of film and music video, resulting in hyper-stylized movies which resembled music videos, and extended music videos that played with narrative and resembled films. "Thriller" is probably a good example of the latter.

A lot of music-video directors were graduating to making feature films, and established film directors were dabbling with music video. Stylish visuals were in vogue, and the mediums of music video and film were borrowing heavily from each other. It all looks a bit heavy-handed by modern standards, but, hey, the 80s were a gaudy time and subtlety was largely absent.

On topic... I really don't think it would be possible to replace the Tangerine Dream soundtrack and still have the film work. The soundtrack is absolutely intrinsic to the film. Whole scenes in "The Keep" play out choreographed to the soundtrack, with limited or no dialog. People might liken it, disparagingly, to a music-video - but what does that really mean? All it means is that, yes, the visuals were designed to fit with the music. And that's why you can't replace the music in "The Keep." QED.

When that "music video" style works in the film, I love it to bits - but I fully understand why people would dislike the film's (apparent) concentration on stylised visuals over narrative coherence.

In the film's defence, I'm guessing that Michael Mann's use of those music-video stylings would've seemed more restrained overall in his original, much longer cut. Think about it: a much longer cut of the film would've had a completely different balance; more troughs between the peaks, if you will. The heavily-stylised "music video" sequences would've been the key "set piece" scenes in the film, rather than the majority of the film.

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[–] wolfgirv-1 10 years ago

All interesting thoughts, but I am reminded of the controversy over the Tangerine Dream versus Jerry Goldsmith scores in Ridley Scott's LEGEND. Change the music score and you effect the whole "feel' of the film entirely.

That said I just wish Michael Mann would recognise that The Keep is what it is, and just release it on a decent DVD instead of the bootlegs committed admirers of the truly unique film have to endure. I already have the 'widescreen' and video rip DVD's and I would still pay for a decent DVD presentation.

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[–] ghostgate2001 10 years ago

I would still pay for a decent DVD presentation

Same here - although a Blu-ray would be my preferred format by now :)

It's crazy that some label like Arrow (UK) or Shout Factory (USA) hasn't picked this one up and dusted it down for a Blu-ray release yet. Both of those labels seem to specialise in licensing and releasing cult films that the big studios who own them can't seem to be bothered with.

The Keep should be a no-brainer for those labels - so the fact that they haven't released it already lends some weight to all the conspiracy theories about Michael Mann blocking it.

Shout Factory are releasing the Director's Cut of Clive Barker's "Nightbreed" in about a month's time - another film that was savagely shortened on its original theatrical release, leaving us with an an oddly stilted film that hints at more.

The original full-length cut (+40 minutes) of that film was a thing of rumour and legend for many years - something people thought they'd never see outside of production stills and clips that proved the existence of missing scenes - but here it is.

Nightbreed is in a very similar position to The Keep in that respect. It's the very definition of a "cult" film: ill-treated on release, panned by critics, forgotten by the masses, but loved by the few ... especialy those who, for all the film's faults, can't help wondering what the director's original cut might have been like, and exactly how much of the film's incoherence and shortcomings were due to the removal of so much footage against the director's wishes.

If a cult curio like Nightbreed can finally get a full restoration and Blu-ray release after 25 years of neglect and semi-obscurity, many there's still hope for a full-length original cut of The Keep?

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[–] RDionysus 9 years ago

Yes, and that Thief score is my favorite TD score of all time, and one of my favorite scores, period.

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