MovieChat Forums > V (1983) Discussion > the rise of the conservative movement

the rise of the conservative movement

posted 11 years ago by bek-12
24 replies | jump to latest

I just watched V for the umpteenth time, this time with my 15-year old daughter, and I noticed some interesting things. Now I know I'm going to get bashed for this, but did anyone else see parallels between V and the conservative movement?

The maligning of the scientists, the deriding of education and science, the constant use of propaganda to turn people against those with critical minds (i.e. scientists and those who would listen to them), use of emotions to make decisions instead of hard science, media being used to manipulate people's beliefs...

It's a scary thought what's happening in the USA. Maybe we're not quite in the world of V, but how far away is it really, if we keep going the way we are?

[–] 11 years ago

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[–] Enigmatic-Ocean 11 years ago

It's scary because of both sides. So, pull your head out of your ass and stop blaming one side- blame them both. The Dems and Reps are equally damaging to this country. You can't possibly think that the Obama administration has been in anyway shape or form better than the Bush one do you? If so, let me know how that Kool Aid tastes.

Memories, you're talking about memories.

[–] eddieinportland 11 years ago

V was inspired by the book "It Can't Happen Here." The book is about fascism taking over America. But with the success of Star Wars. The main villains were changed into alien invaders that use fascism to take over the world.

And there is a saying. When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped up in the flag and carrying a cross.

[–] PhineasAppleby 11 years ago

Only a one sided hack could think something so stupid. It's not liberal vs conservative in the mini-series. The Visitors aren't preaching the love of Jesus Christ over science. They're rounding up people who can expose the truth.

[–] 11 years ago

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[–] dpcole7 8 years ago

And the use of aliens - NBC was right, since gambling on sci-fi with then-popular influences might draw more crowds. "Yet another fascist story" on its own might have been boring at the time. A mixture of real life ideas mixed with enough aliens and pizazz, and still hot from Star Wars (ROTJ would air within 3 weeks of "V"), "V" became wildly popular and not just because of the SW influence. It's truly accessible sci-fi for the most casual viewer. Stricter genre sci-fi wouldn't stay on Earth, but they used the trope extremely well.

And there is another saying. "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped up in things that denounce the flag and spit on the cross." Is that not any less propaganda or eye-opening than what you ended your post with?

[–] bek-12 10 years ago

LOL

Actually, the techniques of the Visitors match the so-called "progressive" movement:

1) persecution of scientists who can expose their lies (e.g., "global warming");
2) manipulation of the educational system to teach what to think, not how to think;
3) ceaseless use of propaganda to frighten people into acting solely on emotion (e.g., alleged "War on Women");
4) endless nonsense and outright lies by the corporate media & government spokesliars, with consistent dishonest "buzzwords" (e.g., the so-called "Affordable" Care Act, etc.).

Well, that is certainly the conservative viewpoint. lol

I believe in science. (I also believe in God, before anyone says otherwise.) Conservatives either tend to believe science is bunk ("pseudo-science", I've heard them call it) or believe it's manipulated. Because to believe it's real often goes against conservative principles, so there is little choice for conservatives when it comes to science.

Propaganda and buzzwords are used by both sides. How many times have you heard conservatives tout "family values", as if they are the only ones who have family values? How many times have you heard about the "liberal media", and about how liberals are "anti-American" and unpatriotic? These are great examples of very well-done propaganda.

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] bek-12 10 years ago

Yes, it's your viewpoint, and it also happens to be the conservative viewpoint.

If modern science is so manipulated, why is SO MUCH of it all leaning in one direction? I mean, there is conservative money out there furthering conservative interests as well. Why do 97% of climate scientists believe that global warming is real and due to human activities?

http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

And since NASA research is publicly financed, not privately financed, how is NASA bought off, too?

And on what evidence are you basing your belief that global warming is a completely false made-up lie?

You don't sound so objective to me.

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] bek-12 10 years ago

And I could say your point of view is also the Marxist point of view.

No, you can't. I believe in science. That's not liberal, conservative, or Marxist.

I do agree with your assessment that money controls too much science. However, if you completely disregard all scientific opinion, then you're out there in the wind with only personal views to support what you think.

Why do you think NASA is controlled by "those pushing global warming?" Is it because we currently have a Democrat as president? NASA also said this sort of thing under Bush. Do you have any facts to support your opinion?

Why do I reject AGW/ACC? Because the Sun is what drives our climate. We know for a fact that climate waxes & wanes, sometimes abruptly and extremely, as has occurred untold times in the past. Who was producing the "carbon emissions" that caused temperature increases in the distant past?

That's the Alex Jones/Glenn Beck propaganda-based talking point. You can use "common sense" to try to solve extremely complex issues, or you can use science. On these topics, you have to go with science.

I hope you don't deny there are misanthropes in academia that actually (and admittedly) believe humanity is a "plague" on the Earth.

I haven't seen that viewpoint in academia, but I have seen it here on the Internet from people. I have never had anyone suggest, serious or otherwise however, that a solution is to kill people.

I really see little evidence for what you believe. You can hold whatever viewpoint you like, but totally disregarding science as "bought off" is going to leave you with nothing but unsubstantiated opinions... which you can tout as fact if you want, I suppose, but I wouldn't feel very comfortable doing that.

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] bek-12 10 years ago

It is clear that despite your insistence you are "objective" and "believe in science," that ideology is your modus operandi.

That's why you're of the Glenn Beck/Rush conservative mindset... I believe in science, thus I must be a Marxist. Are you going to call me a commie, too? :)

Your credibility, already barely reading on the scope, went to zero when you falsely accused me of an "Alex Jones/Glenn Beck propaganda-based talking point." What I stated is astrophysical, climatological, and geological fact. Period, end of story. To argue otherwise is to claim the solar system is geocentric.

You're saying your opinion is "fact", but scientists, experts in the field, who happen to disagree with you are all wrong or biased. I don't understand how that's a reasonable stance.

I'm done. You "win." You can have the Internets.

I wasn't trying to "win." Just trying to understand if any of your opinion is fact-based.

[–] Enigmatic-Ocean 10 years ago

I won't call you a commie... I will just call you a sheep

All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.

[–] bek-12 10 years ago

I won't call you a commie... I will just call you a sheep

And what makes me a sheep and you not one?

Seems to me this is a pretty conservative country. If you're moving in that direction yourself, the way most people are going, that would make you the sheep, wouldn't it?

[–] Enigmatic-Ocean 10 years ago

I don't consider myself a conservative. So, you lose...

All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.

[–] bek-12 10 years ago

Libertarians don't consider themselves conservative, either, yet most are them are.

[–] Enigmatic-Ocean 10 years ago

I am not a libertarian either, but by all means keep your assumptions coming. I know it's hard for you (and people like you) to believe that there are people out that that see how evil both parties are. I don't ascribe to either of their power hungry ideologies. The Democratic party and The Republican parties are both dead. All that is left are two warring factions of the progressive party who slightly differ on their stances on Abortion and Gun rights, but they only do that in order to keep the populace divided and therefore make them easier to control. If you can't see it you have my sympathy. Perhaps one day you'll see it. Lord knows that it took me almost 35 years to see it, but ultimately-I did.

All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.

[–] palmercin 8 years ago

Think this due means well, but a lil' too much Alex Jones in the ears

http://lscottpalmer.blogspot.com/

[–] mydarkpassenger 10 years ago

The message of the movie is about fascism coming to America. The movie makes observations about common threads that occur under said ideology including controlling the media, censorship/suppression of alternative views, victim mentality with a party to blame for all of one's issues, indoctrination of the youth, removing critical thinking, etc. These ideas are not exclusive to any party but people should be aware of them to avoid letting these groups gain influence. Probably the biggest one that should be a big red flag of potential fascism is when a group tries to make it impossible to criticize their views openly. No matter what their rational this is extremely dangerous and should never be humored (whether it be for religious reasons, politically correct reasons or any other reasons).

[–] bek-12 10 years ago

I agree with most of what you said, except for the "victim mentality with a party to blame for all of one's issues." You exhibited said mentality? I don't recall that.

[–] mydarkpassenger 10 years ago

The movie didn't show much with the victim mentality but it did demonize a group, claiming they were holding back technology to help others (cure for cancer) and were responsible for trying to stop the visitors from sharing their technology. The visitors were designed to represent Nazis and the scientists the Jews, where the Nazis blamed all of Germany's problems on the Jews with a long term smear campaign before the Holocaust.

With a victim mentality a group looks to another group to blame for their issues (rather than looking at the role they played in how things turned out). Those people tend to look to others who will reinforce their victim status. This stops people from trying feeling their life is out of their hands and can make them angry and bitter as said party. This can lead to some bad people using it as a tool to manipulate others for their own agenda. It's the primary reason I believe even if you are a victim you should never think of yourself as a victim because it's a terrible outlook to have.

[–] 8 years ago

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[–] dpcole7 8 years ago

I saw a parallel to Hitler and the Nazis, but that's about it. Even then, books in 1935 (before Hitler) discussed how "It Can't Happen Here").

Also remember the disclaimer, "Any similarity with fictitious events or characters was purely coincidental." Last I'd checked, we don't have hawt aliens selling us cockamamie stories while eating us and not in good ways...