Did one of his kids die in the car crash?
Couldn't remember if one of his kids died. And did Milton get his pene bitten off?
shareIt did happen in the book, dunno about the movie. :p
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MovieChat Forums > The World According to Garp (1982) Discussion > Did one of his kids die in the car crash...
Yes and yes.
shareYes, their son did die and honestly they didn't seem too upset by it. Let's just have another baby, that'll make us forget our son died. Weird. The early '80s had some strange movies. Yuppies.
shareYou're kidding, right? Did you really think their unhappiness was all about their OWN injuries?
Let's just have another baby, that'll make us forget our son died.
Wanting to have another child when a couple suffers this, the worst of all tragedies, is never thought of as replacing their first child.
When one suffers this deepest of hurts, many people feel the ONLY way to help them find a reason to 'live' again is to be able to somehow find a joy in life again. The only joy that could be as big as the void a child's death causes is the experience of indescribable joy one gets at the moment of a child's birth.
Your statement shows me that you are not a parent, or, if you are, you have never suffered the loss of a child (thank God.)
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I'm not a parent and I've never suffered the loss of a child & even I could see that a lot of the pain they felt had nothing to do with their physical injuries.
shareBefore you go off crucifying the poster, maybe blame the makers of the movie. While it is hinted by the freeze-frame that the child has passed away (& later mentioned in the bedroom scene), you hardly see the parents grieving. Not a single tear is shed. There's just anger between them which could easily be misattributed to the adultery.
An entire segment like this would be laughed at this day and age. I guess audiences were just a little more forgiving in the 80s.
An entire segment like this would be laughed at this day and age. I guess audiences were just a little more forgiving in the 80s.
I don't think it's a matter of audiences being more forgiving. More "perceptive" would be a better description.
It's very clear to me that they have lost their son. They're doing nothing but grieving while they're recuperating at Jenny's house. They're angry at each other, and while the adultery plays a role in the anger, it's because they're blaming each other that the adultery caused a role in the accident that killed their son. People who are grieving aren't necessarily crying every minute of the day. Narratively, the freeze frame on Walt, the next scenes of everyone BUT Walt recuperating with some terrible injuries, Garp and Helen feuding with each other to the point where Helen spills out about her broken heart, and then them connecting and literally saying "I miss Walt" makes it pretty damned obvious what happened. And there are plenty of tears shed then.
If this segment would be laughed at today it would only because audiences were not capable of holding more than one thought in their head at the same time and need everything absolutely spelled out for them immediately. I don't happen to believe that's true, fortunately. share
And yet when Glenn Close's character dies, the mood is far more sombre. I don't know about you, but losing a child would absolutely destroy me. Losing a parent is upsetting no doubt but it surely cannot compare - especially a parent who's lived a relatively fuller life.
I disagree that it's about spoon-feeding everything. The tone of the scene following the tragedy lacked authenticity and emotion. I personally can't even comprehend how Helen was allowed to recuperate alongside Garp. She was the primary cause of the incident. If I was Garp's mother, I would've told her to get the fück out!
And yet when Glenn Close's character dies, the mood is far more sombre. I don't know about you, but losing a child would absolutely destroy me. Losing a parent is upsetting no doubt but it surely cannot compare - especially a parent who's lived a relatively fuller life.
To me, both characters read as pretty destroyed and heartbroken.
The difference between Jenny's death and Walt's is the passage of time. With Jenny we go straight to a burial and memorial service. For Walt, it's weeks that have passed before we catch up with them because it's absolutely unnecessary as a plot device to see them in their most grief-stricken aftermath. The whole point is how do they move on, as a family, after something like this has happened?
I disagree that it's about spoon-feeding everything. The tone of the scene following the tragedy lacked authenticity and emotion.
There are people on this thread and others that absolutely cannot work out if the son is dead or not. Those people require spoon feeding, evidently, because they haven't figured out that the viewer is supposed to register Walt's total absence. (At a point where they've already missed every bit of foreshadowing about the character leading up to his death, including his fear of the "under toad.")
I personally can't even comprehend how Helen was allowed to recuperate alongside Garp. She was the primary cause of the incident. If I was Garp's mother, I would've told her to get the fück out!
The point is that Helen and Garp are blaming each other but neither was innocent in the accident. Helen was there, obviously, engaged in an affair she shouldn't have been but Garp was wildly, wildly irresponsible in rage driving. He's flying down a dark street with his lights off, in the rain, with kids that are perched up dangerously without any seatbelts on. He is also very much to blame.
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G FuterFas...Watch it again. There's an entire 15 to 20 minutes of the film where Garp and Helen are clearly shattered by Walt's death. Garp is hurt and furious at Helen and probably blames her. The scene in the bedroom, where they finally start speaking to each other and tell each other how much they both miss Walt in gets me every time.
shareLet's just have another baby, that'll make us forget our son died.
G FuterFas...Watch it again. There's an entire 15 to 20 minutes of the film where Garp and Helen are clearly shattered by Walt's death. Garp is hurt and furious at Helen and probably blames her. The scene in the bedroom, where they finally start speaking to each other and tell each other how much they both miss Walt gets me every time.
It was weird they never even mentioned the little kid dying.
Wouldn't that have been just as tragic as Garp's mother dying?
Goonies never say die.
Actually they did mention the kid dying. When Robin Williams walks in his wife's room after getting his stitches out of his tongue, they begin hugging and crying together, and Robin tells his wife he misses Walt. At that point we new he had passed away from the car accident. Incidentally, If I lost a child because I was in the car giving a blow-job to an ex-lover just hours after finding out my husband found out about the affair and was due home, I would probably kill myself. I couldn't live with the guilt. I feel they moved on a little too soon in the movie and didn't show enough grief.
share"I miss Walt" wasn't even that clear that he died. I just found out on this board that he died. Or maybe I'm just stupid and can't follow movies very well.
The book didn't really confirm much at first and I think they wanted to mirror that effect. They just kept talking about all the rest of the family while the reader is like well what's happening with Walt?
shareThe long freeze-frame on Walt's face in the accident kinda clued me in.
shareI watched this movie the other day..i had seen it before when i was younger, but now that im older i rememberd it alot better!
I really enjoyed it!
I heard him say that he misses walt, but yeah i agree that they were too quick and didnt show any grief in this movie! u kinda just had to make your own feeling about it!
there were very many questionable things about this movie, but it deffinatly was enjoyable!
Its One of those movies that gets you thinking days after it! :)
I heard him say that he misses walt, but yeah i agree that they were too quick and didnt show any grief in this movie! u kinda just had to make your own feeling about it!It's like that in the book too. By the time Garp says that he missies Walt it's been months after the fact so I would say that the greiving process was on the downslope. Actually, I kind of liked the fact that it was handled that way in the book without having to go through the grief with the characters. The book is tragic enough without having to focus on that as well. I'm looking forwards to seeing the movie again.
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When I first saw the film IN THE THEATRE, I was really confused, or else I would have been but I saw it with a friend who had seen it earlier and figured it out. When Walt says "It's like a dream" and the frame freezes on his face and it fades away, I was saying "What happened?" and my buddy in the theater whispered "The kid dies". At the time I went "Awwww! Crap! I liked that kid" :( , but it enabled me to view the rest of the scenes in the proper context. So it was pretty 'vague' and the viewer had to figure out that the little boy died, which was really Sad.
Dr. Kila Marr was right. Kill the Crystalline Entity.share
To me it was so obvious, even from just the freeze frame.
By the time anyone says "I miss Walt", how much more do you need?
IT's not that obvious on the first viewing. Also the film itself was an unconventional narrative to begin with. It's easy in restrospect, especially when you're very familiar with the film. Once I knew, a second viewing was obvious. But the first time, you're not sure. Again, the film itself was unconventional so the filmmaker could have meant anything.
Dr. Kila Marr was right. Kill the Crystalline Entity.share
in the book they foreshadow walt's death by saying that little children have the weakest necks. i do not remember any description of his death. they do not even confirm his death for awhile in the book.
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It's been a while since i last saw this movie,
but i seem to remember the frame freezes in on Walt
and then you hear the car crashing.
This made it obvious to me that he died.
^^It was quite obvious to me as well.
The foreshadowing - Walt being disappointed that he "never get[s] to die."
The actual scene
Walt NOT being present at Jenny's after the accident
Garp saying that he misses Walt
Walt never appears in the film again
i think its not obvious like that on prupose, if my mother hadnt told he dies while i reading the book that probably never would have dawned on me. also, neither of them did seem to upset. it was more like they lost a cat
you are a sad, strange little man, and you have my pity- Buzz Lightyear
It's also not obvious because of the way the family tries to be stoic, which is very true to life. After a death, family members don't walk around the house, wailing the name of the deceased, and screaming "WHY?!" The last thing they want to do is talk about it, so they keep it in, get frustrated and generally turn on each other until they're finally forced to cope. One thing I hate about really bad dramas is that they depict survivors of tragedy as hopeless figures who can't ever function again without weeping. While that may be true in some cases, most people do everything they can to keep themselves from thinking about their loss, and try to go about everyday life. "Garp" does this excellently.
I am Lord Newt Batchmonkey!
I have to second this.
I completely agree and felt that it was the more natural and realistic way of going about it. They had a lot of pain and a lot of time to grieve, that's a lot of the reason Helen was depressed, not just because she was physically hurt. The guilt of her choice caused the death of her son, I'd say she was mourning the loss of her son that entire time.
as keju7 said, realistically they won't be running around the house sobbing and crying about the loss.
they'd go through the steps of mourning.
besides, they sped through a lot of what happened, within the movie.
one moment you see baby jenny as an infant, the next she looks to be about 7 years old when the male babysitter shows up.
it's not like the movie followed them day to day to day.
The foreshadowing - Walt being disappointed that he "never get[s] to die."There's LOTS more foreshadowing too.
This is a weird discussion to me, as I saw the movie first as a child and my most searing memory of it for a decade or more was Walt's tragic death. I've always found it obvious. share
I saw the movie years ago and it was kind of hard to get through because I saw it at 15 and it was a bit over my head after viewing the movie years later, and then buying the book second hand and reading it, the movie was pretty true to the book. They didn't actually say that Walt died, just that they missed him. Leading you to believe that he was dead, yes I also agree that they didn't mourn as much as they should have. Also they don't tell how the other son lost his eye in the movie but in the book the dad knew she was with him cuz she didn't answer the phone, so he left the theater, sees the car in the drive way and guns it to run into them (stupid) but when he does she's giving him a blowjob and the crash makes her lock her jaw down, biting off his penis. She later has to spit it out, the son who lost his eye did so because on the car the gear shift didn't have a ball just a screw where it went and Garp had been meaning to fix it. So it went through the one sons eye. The others neck broke from the crash.
In my opinion Garp killed his son, half blinded the other, lost the tip of his tongue, broke his wifes jaw, and maimed a man all because of his jealousy. If he had just gotten pissed and went there and kicked the guys ass he wouldn't have had all those things happen. I think that's where I lost respect for him.
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How could Garp be jealous
Jealousy is an irrational belief that your mate is cheating on you.
In this case, it was not irrational, Helen was cheating, with a 23-year-old boy.
In the book, it addresses Helen's guilt by saying "she believed she was overall a good woman who was being made to suffer disproportionately for her sins" or something like that
In what fantasy world is jealousy limited to the irrational? One may be jealous of another's actual success, just as one may be jealous due to actual infidelity. Look it up before starting semantic debates.
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Whatever, semantics aside, only a complete moron would blame GARP for this accident
Only a moron would NOT blame him for the accident. He was the one "flying" the car with the kids inside, you idiot.
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http://mulhollandcinelog.wordpress.com/
You're wrong; Garp did not think Helen was home, and had no intention of ramming ANYONE. He called home several times, and she didn't answer, leading him to think Helen was out with Michael Milton. He did the "flying" trick with his kids at their urging, because they think it's fun (we see him do it for them earlier). He didn't know the other car was in the driveway until he rounded the curve up to the driveway and it was too late.
The war is not meant to be won... it is meant to be continuous.
You're forgetting that the reason Garp didn't know the other car was in the driveway was that Garp had turned off his headlights (to create an "effect" for his passengers)--a tactic Helen had criticized him for earlier in the movie when he did it while she was in the car (another foreshadowing).
Of course, Michael Milton's car shouldn't have been in the driveway and Helen shouldn't have been doing what she was doing in it. But clearly both she and Garp bear blame for the crash.
I didn't exactly forget it, I just didn't mention it. ;) Thanks for the added detail, though. There were truly a number of factors at play in combination, to create that tragedy.
The war is not meant to be won... it is meant to be continuous.
Sorry--I didn't read your prior post quite carefully enough: you did mention the "flying trick", although I guess not what it specifically entailed with the headlights, for those who were paying less attention than either of us were.
Of course, the actual point I was making before still stands--i.e., that both Garp and Helen were at fault.
Anyway, it's great that you were able to pick up the discussion four years after your original post!
I certainly thought there were a lot of interesting angles to this film in general--what we might expect from George Roy Hill.
Have a good evening.
I get automatic email updates from IMDB on any replies, so even years later I'm in the discussion. ;)
Besides, this great movie doesn't get enough views these days.
The war is not meant to be won... it is meant to be continuous.
In my opinion Garp killed his son, half blinded the other, lost the tip of his tongue, broke his wifes jaw, and maimed a man all because of his jealousy. If he had just gotten pissed and went there and kicked the guys ass he wouldn't have had all those things happen. I think that's where I lost respect for him.
You're kidding right?
Garp was doing what he always did when he got home; you know...the thing with putting the car in neutral and turning off the headlights, which in that scene, the kids asked for him to do. His jealousy had nothing to do with when he decided to take the kids home.
That tragedy would have never happened if there was no affair and Michael's car wasn't in the driveway.
If... If...
The tragedy would never have happened if cars hadn't been invented.
The tragedy would never have happened if he didn't know how to drive.
If... If...
What a pointless way of arguing.
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http://mulhollandcinelog.wordpress.com/
You're pointless. Get some perspective. It's Helen's fault, not Garp's.
"I will not go down in history as the greatest mass-murderer since Adolf Hitler!" - Merkin Muffley
if you think it wasn't "obvious" in the movie, it's not even "seen" in the book.
i kept turning the pages when garp said the he 'mished' him. that really annoyed me but i kind of liked it
i don't think you can blame either of them, it was an accident! sort of!!
anyway they shouldn't blame themselves either, they needed to move on and raise their child not pass the blame!
really? for me it was pretty clear in the book. \Irving minds that there has been very quiet in the car just after the crash and Walt was coughing all the time (he got a flu) - but there was no cough anymore. than the "weak necks of little kids" remark, don't remember the phrase exactly, but it was very obvious that Walt was dead now.
Walt's tragic loss is the climax of the book, but in the movie it's like they lost a cat, as it was said before. let's have another child! etc. gross.
you really think that they shouldn't blame themselves for killing their own son and blinding another one because of their complicated relationship? who cares it was unintentional.
They don't do a good job of showing them in mourning.
Kitty Collins: Tell me, little boy, did you get a whistle or baseball bat with that suit?
no, it was weird....i thought it was a haha-moment
as in, the Wife bit on more than she could chew !! ;)
other than Garp freaking out, everyone else seems to take it as a personal husband-wife crisis, and not much else.
It was obvious to me that the younger kid died, and the older lost his eye. I don't mind the fact they never really say: "oh, the kid died", it would be too obvious. BUT...
But the mourning part was... weird. Emotionally wrong. True, people don't go around crying and screaming "whyyy" like in bad dramas, but it really looked like they had a marriage crisis in the film, not lost of a child. Plus, when Garp's mother dies, it's all much different... They cry, they act all sad... I don't think it was intentional, but it looked like Jane's death was bigger tragedy to all of them. Which is wrong (emotionally) to me.
The book makes the true scope of the grief, bitterness and healing clearer, as well as the actual events of the accident. The family has to recover from devastating physical and mental injuries. Garp has to communicate like the Ellen Jamesians, and writes spiteful notes Helen, a cruel parody of the love letters he used to write before they were married. Jenny has to act as a nurse and a buffer for the family, knowing they are all walking wounded, and afraid to talk about Walt and the whole dreadful situation. Garp starts writing his most shocking future bestseller to express his anguish, but it is the other couple with whom the Garps were once "involved", who help them open up and start to express their grief and eventually reconcile. I'm not sure all of this could be accurately conveyed in a movie, given the time restraints; maybe if it had been a different actor than Robin Williams playing Garp.
What are you all talking about? Couldn't keep watching after I noticed this and nobody cared. What a crap film and book for that matter.
sharei loved it...
I believe one must be able to read between the lines to follow a film such as this. Not every emotion has to be verbalized...Thoughts, feelings, 'looks'...they all help make it come together.
Maybe you should stick to cartoons.
Here's to those who wish me well...
I haven't seen this since the 80's, but I remember this discussion. I felt it was obvious that the kid died, but I told a friend of mine at school that I thought he survived, lol. My friend went all over these things, explaining why it was obvious he died, I pretended to remain unconvinced. He was so exasperated. Good times.
shareOnly saw this movie once and I never read the book or had any knowledge what happened in it. It was completely obvious to me that the kid died. They freeze frame on him, you hear a crash, they slowly zoom in on his image, and he's gone for the rest of the movie. I thought it was pretty clear. It was Garp's death I was unsure about, but apparently he bought the farm too. Such an uplifting film.
Bruce Wayne? Why are you dressed up like Batman?
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