MovieChat Forums > Tootsie (1982) Discussion > The drink in the face...

The drink in the face...


I love this movie... one of the best comedies ever. And certainly with deeper underlying meanings that make it more than just a comedy about a guy in drag.

But one scene always seemed a bit hypocritical to the theme.

Micheal Dorsey meets Julie at a party. He says to her exactly what she claimed (to Dorothy) she wished a man would say to her. And she throws a drink in his face. Why?

Because he was a short, big nosed, obviously not rich or successful, guy who was beneath her status. If he had looked like Brad Pitt I sense the character would have engaged in playful banter and who knows what.

Considering the movie was about how douchebag men are because they don't understand what a woman goes through... I suggest that they might have been a little more sensitive to what mere mortal looking guys who aren't rich can sometimes face.

The scene in itself is funny and is played for the laugh at the end but it just seems a little hypocritical.

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There's no reason to assume that Julie didn't respond to Michael because he was an unsuccessful, short guy with a big nose. The character has never been shown to be a snob, though she confesses that she picks the wrong men.

So why does she throw a drink of Michael Dorsey's face? Because she's moody, insecure,and confused. I don't think she's a hypocrite; it's too well established throughout the movie that in some ways, Julie's pretty frail. I think she believed the statement about the kind of thing she wanted men to say to her when she confided it to Dorothy. I also think that when she heard her own "ideal words" coming back at her from Michael she really didn't like them. That happens. She's mercurial. (So is Michael.)



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I agree when Julie hears her own words it's not the same as when she's being open w/Dorothy.

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when Julie hears her own words it's not the same as when she's being open w/Dorothy.


What makes you think that she's being open when she's talking to Dorothy? Julie's a people-pleaser. She admires Dorothy, wants to be more like what she thinks Dorothy is (stronger, self-assured, able to stand up for herself, someone who doesn't NEED a man in her life to complete her), so maybe she's just saying what she thinks Dorothy would approve of, not what she (Julie) really wants.

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It's not hypocritical and it's not about Michael's looks or status. It's just that it's one thing to imagine what you would want, and another for it to actually happen to you. In real life, it did not come across as romantic, or real, or whatever it was she thought would be so appealing about it. It came across as just another lame pickup line.

And I don't feel "poor Michael" about that scene. Here he is trying to pick her up when he knows Ron is at the party about to rejoin her. He's not being sincere, he's simply using a line he think he will work. And it's a line he knows about because she thought she was speaking to another woman, so pretty low on his part.

I don't feel the movie is simply about "how douchebag men are because they don't understand what a woman goes through". As Terri Garr says in the extras, it brings up questions about, why do men treat women that way, and why do women treat men that way? That scene is about both sides of that equation.

You must be the change you seek in the world. -- Gandhi

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I thought it was perfect and really realistic. The characters in this film seemed more like real people than embodiments of messages the writers were trying to convey.

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The welfare of all the people has always been the alibi of tyrants. Albert Camus


When Julie told Dorothy what she wanted a man to say I thought she meant that she wished a guy whom she already knew and was attracted to would say those things to her. I don't think she meant that she wanted a total stranger to hit on her at a party. That was my understanding of her comments.

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I think I saw one whole episode of a reality show called Average Joe. There were a couple of sequels to boot. Average men were brought on the show to compete for a beauty queen. Then half way through handsome hunks were brought in ambush style. No surprise there. The hunks always won the woman. So much for beauty is only skin deep.



I don't know everything. Neither does anyone else

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This is how I saw it too. She specifically said the guy would say he found her interesting. You don't think someone is "interesting" by seeing them across a crowded room. That less to you thinking they are attractive, nothing more. Plus, he picked a time when she was being pecked at by other men. She couldn't walk through the room without being accosted. That's not the right time to hit on a woman.

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what I didn't get is how Julie did not immediately realise there was a connection between Michael and Dorothy at that point, like if you told a person something in confidence and the exact conversation was repeated to you by a stranger days later you would defo smell a rat...

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I see the logic in what you say. But I think the moment works for two reasons. First: Julie seems pretty down at that party, and when Michael speaks to her on the balcony she is cynical and moody. It's possible she doesn't even recognize the words as her own, but just knows she doesn't like a complete stranger coming onto her so hard. The movie has established that she's a vulnerable, fairly unpredictable person.

By the same token, it's not exactly smart of Michael to use her own words back to her so precisely. Wouldn't he be afraid she would make the connection to Dorothy? It's possible that he took a chance, not wanting to change a syllable of the come-on she's said would make her fall into a man's arms. Or maybe--awkward parties being what they are--they're both on edge, and neither of them are particularly smart at that moment. They're just human, caught in something.

The comedy is also set up to distract from the logical elements at play. After all, it's pretty daring of Michael to come on to Julie with that line. We're thinking "Oh my God! He just used her exact words back at her, but as Michael, not Dorothy! And--oh my God! How is she going to react, after hearing her own words like that?" And just as we're thinking those things, she throws the drink. It's a shock, and it's so much the reverse of anything we expected that it gets a laugh, and the movie moves on--and moves on fast. It's only when we look back and think things through step by step that we ask questions. Most farces don't hold up if you do that kind of re-tread of every moment. They are precisely built. Improbabilities pile up into a fantastical tower--and when the tower falls apart, it does it in one long, beautiful, hilarious catastrophe. The audience really doesn't have that much time to think. And if, looking back, you think about one scene and say "hold it--that doesn't make absolute, perfect sense"--well, it made enough sense, at the moment, and made the sale. And hopefully, you feel good enough about the laugh to let it go.

That's how I feel about that scene, anyway.

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For some people, this scene didn't make sense 'at the moment'---when it happened, this 'drink throwing' scene didn't work for me. It made Julie seem both mean and hypocritical. And then Michael wipes his face on some guy's shirt? The whole scene made both characters look bad, which they weren't. The rest of the movie was better than this scene, which if edited out, wouldn't hurt the movie at all.
It really wasn't necessary.

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what I didn't get is how Julie did not immediately realise there was a connection between Michael and Dorothy at that point, like if you told a person something in confidence and the exact conversation was repeated to you by a stranger days later you would defo smell a rat...


Because she was just rambling off the top of her head when she told Dorothy those things. When you ramble, you're not going to remember exactly what you said days later. For example, if you told someone, "Man, I would love for someone to tell me I'm the hottest, sexiest thing that ever walked the face of the earth," are you really going to remember that you said that a week from now? Maybe you'll remember that you said you wanted to be complimented, but you're not going to remember those exact words.

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Out of the whole movie, this is the ONE scene I disliked. I think if they cut it out completely, TOOTSIE would be a "10". As it is, it's just a 9.5 for me. I hated him saying it and I hated her throwing the drink in his face. Wish it would have been left on the cutting-room floor.

"Well, make something up!"/RG

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agreed. this scene belongs in a much cruder, lousier comedy. the rest of the movie was great.

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I think this is a very realistic scene showing that women are very moody and basically don't know what they want. They claim to want some kind of behavior from a man, but then they get this behavior they suddenly don't like it. That's life, that's women. Of course, this scene is also great from a comical point of view, even though it may not make sense to every viewer.

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henrimaine, I as a woman, don't like to think that all women are like that. But here is another movie that gives the same message, "About Time"

In this movie, the men in a certain family have the ability to go back in time in their own lives. The main character falls for the gorgeous cousin of his sister's boyfriend who stays with them for the summer. On the last night she is there, he lets her know his interest, and her response is that he had waited too long. He should have tried earlier in the summer. So he goes back in time so he can ask her earlier in the summer. Her response: ask her again on her last night.



You must be the change you seek in the world. -- Gandhi

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I think this is a very realistic scene showing that women are very moody and basically don't know what they want. They claim to want some kind of behavior from a man, but then they get this behavior they suddenly don't like it. That's life, that's women.


Heh. Sounds like a typical bitter man who struggles to understand that fantasy and reality are different things for both men and women.

Think about your most secret, private, outrageous, unfulfilled fantasy, henrimaine. I suspect if it suddenly actually happened to you in the real world it wouldn't be nearly as nice and fun and problem-free as you imagined.

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It's not that she's moody. It's that there's a time and a place for everything. She clearly wanted to be alone in that moment. It's about needing space sometimes. Aa famous and beautiful woman, she had people vying for her attention constantly.

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I think this is a very realistic scene showing that women are very moody and basically don't know what they want. They claim to want some kind of behavior from a man, but then they get this behavior they suddenly don't like it. That's life, that's women. Of course, this scene is also great from a comical point of view, even though it may not make sense to every viewer.


On top of demonstrating a nasty and unfair view of women, this paragraph of yours is based on an erroneous assumption--which is that the man in question is considered ugly by the woman in the scene, women in the audience, and women in general, therefore she acted differently than if he were attractive. When this film came out, I went to see it in large part because I had a mad crush on both Dustin Hoffman and Bill Murray, and found them both sexy in the film, as well. I was not, by any stretch, the only woman in America to think so at the time. Both Hoffman and Murray were very popular actors in the 80s.

The film also does not present Michael as unattractive to women. He "gets" a girl early on basically by stripping down to his shorts in her bedroom and then gets the girl he actually wants at the end, so obviously, he's no rock troll in their eyes.

However, in that drink-in-the-face scene, I didn't find him attractive at all and that was because he was acting nasty, pushy, sinister, and self-centered. I didn't like Julie in that scene, either (and certainly wouldn't suggest throwing a drink on someone who is simply coming on to you verbally without vile language), but I don't think she responded the way she did because she was "moody." She responded that way because he came off like an a-hole.

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Whole movie is about hypocrycy - macho directors repeats word for word Hoffman's previous words (about not wanting to hurt feelings) about his actress lover (forgot the name) and Hoffman (Tootsie) thinks it's all completely ridiculous.

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Wow, some people are so dense! I'm saying that, because some of the interpretations of the drink in the face scene are so completely off the mark that it's like people were watching a completely different movie.

The reason why Julie threw a drink in Michael's face was obvious. When Julie told Dorothy what she wanted to hear from a man, she wasn't saying, "This is the exact thing a man has to say to get into my pants." What she was saying was, "This is the type of nice, sweet, romantic thing I'd like to hear in general."

Michael took what she said the wrong way and thought, "Oh, great! She's given me the perfect pick up line! If I say it, she'll sleep with me, no problem!" That's why Julie was offended when he repeated those lines to her. Michael was saying "all the right things", but the way he said it, he came across as one of those sleazy, arrogant pickup artists who was just feeding her any line of bull to sleep with her. Telling her that he'd love to make love to her (when she didn't know him from Adam) was just the icing on the cake. He definitely crossed the line when he said it. You don't tell a stranger that under any circumstances, especially not with that creepy, smug, arrogant smile that Michael was making.

BTW, that whole scene was an example of what Michael meant in the last scene of the movie when he goes, "I was a better man as a woman." When Michael was being Dorothy, he was always sweet, kind and considerate around Julie because he thought that this is how women generally act. When Michael was being himself at the party (as a man), he behaved poorly because he acted the way he thought men are supposed to act. The drink throwing was the first major wake up call, that if he wanted to win Julie's heart, he had to approach her the way Dorothy--a woman--did (by being sensitive and understanding) and not in the way a man stereotypically would.

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Wow, some people are so dense! I'm saying that, because some of the interpretations of the drink in the face scene are so completely off the mark that it's like people were watching a completely different movie.


People aren't being dense, and no-ones comments are 'off the mark'. This is a discussion and people are offering opinions, most of which seem perfectly valid to me - including yours.

The reason why Julie threw a drink in Michael's face was obvious. When Julie told Dorothy what she wanted to hear from a man, she wasn't saying, "This is the exact thing a man has to say to get into my pants." What she was saying was, "This is the type of nice, sweet, romantic thing I'd like to hear in general."


I kind of agree. She was saying she was tired of bull, and would almost prefer honesty. She didn't actually say she would then leap in to bed with them.

Michael took what she said the wrong way and thought, "Oh, great! She's given me the perfect pick up line! If I say it, she'll sleep with me, no problem!"


Yes. He thought he could use it.

That's why Julie was offended when he repeated those lines to her. Michael was saying "all the right things", but the way he said it, he came across as one of those sleazy, arrogant pickup artists who was just feeding her any line of bull to sleep with her. Telling her that he'd love to make love to her (when she didn't know him from Adam) was just the icing on the cake.


I'm not convinced Julie even made the connection. Just a sleazy guy coming onto her in a very overt way.

He definitely crossed the line when he said it. You don't tell a stranger that under any circumstances, especially not with that creepy, smug, arrogant smile that Michael was making.


Anecdotally; I've seen both men and women use lines not too different, and the way people respond depends more on what the person using the line looks like, and how they play it off, than anything else (for both genders).

BTW, that whole scene was an example of what Michael meant in the last scene of the movie when he goes, "I was a better man as a woman." When Michael was being Dorothy, he was always sweet, kind and considerate around Julie because he thought that this is how women generally act. When Michael was being himself at the party (as a man), he behaved poorly because he acted the way he thought men are supposed to act. The drink throwing was the first major wake up call, that if he wanted to win Julie's heart, he had to approach her the way Dorothy--a woman--did (by being sensitive and understanding) and not in the way a man stereotypically would.


Throughout the whole time he was being Dorothy he had an agenda; he didn't like Ron, and he was attracted to Julie. The only difference was he couldn't act on it, which meant he had to do the next best thing which was try and be Julie's friend. The time he spent with Julie might have made him care about her more, but really he was never a better man, he was just stuck in an immovable position while waiting to play out his ulterior motive. Plus, the film already showed he was capable of friendship and compassion with women by how he treated Sandy (prior to the unplanned relationship shift). Michael was selfish and somewhat boorish, but being Dorothy wouldn't really change that beyond him wanting a relationship with Julie. He never really seems bad at any time.

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Other than your unnecessary (this is a film discussion with strangers, not a drunken rowdy argument with your friends) castigating in the first paragraph, your take on this scene is spot on. It saves me from saying virtually the same thing.

It also reinforces the concept that Julie does not recognize Michael as Dorothy.

And the wiping the drink on the stranger's jacket? Just another goofy touch showing that Michael does not realize his ridiculousness or his rampant ego ("You were a tomato!").

The "Thank you" yell to the jerk Dorothy throws out of the cab is another silly moment that sweetly and funnily reminds us we are watching a farce.


"I slept with you and you're in love with my husband. What the hell am I supposed to do with that?"

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