MovieChat Forums > Tenebre (1984) Discussion > Argento's Best? You gotta be kidding me.

Argento's Best? You gotta be kidding me.

posted 14 years ago by exdimlight
32 replies | jump to latest

Reading the board I was shocked to learn that so many people regard this film to be better than Profondo Rosso or even Argento's best.

I truly love Argento's directing style and his movies but I found Tenebre to be quite bad.

The plot is too inconsistent, the characters are too many, too many things are left unexplained. I found the ending to be absurd.

The death sequences were still scary but they were also really random and weren't really driving the plot forward (like in Suspiria for example).

The pace was also a big problem.

I can see why people may like this movie but I find it all in all to be poorly executed.

If you disagree, I'd like you to explain exactly why you think this movie is good (or, if you think so, one of his best works).

[–] ibbi 13 years ago

I don't think it's his best, with movies like Profondo Rosso and Suspiria under his belt that's a very big ask, but I still think this is brilliant.

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[–] kausix777 13 years ago

By his standards, I think this was ordinary. Yes, a few loose ends in a mystery movie don't really impress me much.

Profondo Rosso really impressed me, but again, Suspiria didn't. Somehow, I think Suspiria is his worst.

[–] mulholland_empire 13 years ago

you should all watch this again. anyone who likes deep red will like this, it just took me a bunch of times to watch for me too really start to appreciate how convoluted the story really is, but it makes sense. it has some of the best camera work and music i think. i dont really see any loose ends in the plot. deep red and tenebre are his finest giallos to me. of course bird and 4 flies are classics but if i had to pick a top 3 argento i would prob say suspira, deep red, & tenebre. phenomena closely follows

anyways im watchin the arrow tenebre bluray right now and it actually looks good. sure its grainy but i dont think alot of movies from the 70s are going to look pristine. i saw alot of bad reviews on it.

i thought id come here and give tenebre a little love after seeing this board lol

its possibly my fav argento. theres just too many to choose from.

his run from the 70s-80s is just flawless.

[–] kausix777 13 years ago

I agree with the workmanship but often, the primary reason I watch a movie is because of the story and this one has loose ends. For instance, how did he get his "chopper" when killing Berti? And how did he come back and pretend to be passed out so quickly?

[–] mulholland_empire 13 years ago

well, its no secret that argento is not the greatest writer ever. i mean who knows maybe peter neal staked out bertis place before he went there with his agents apprentice (i cnt seem to remember his name right now) and knew where a weapon was. and maybe peter neal was really that good at setting up the murder to make it look like it wasnt him. we all know hes very good at writing about things like that. i totally understand what you are saying, but too me those are very minor plot holes. but this is where we differ: you mainly pay attention to the writing and the story. i'm more into the craftmanship that argento put into this film (camera wrk, music, etc...)

[–] alucardvenom 9 years ago

I agree with the workmanship but often, the primary reason I watch a movie is because of the story and this one has loose ends. For instance, how did he get his "chopper" when killing Berti? And how did he come back and pretend to be passed out so quickly?

Then you should probably not watch Argento. He was never hailed for his incredible storytelling. He was usually praised for his style and camerawork, because all of his movies of that era felt rather unique and dozens of other Italian filmmakers started copying him (even some Spanish and American directors tried it out)

[–] PoppyTransfusion 13 years ago

I was very disappointed with this. It's raved about as one of Argento's best and is more highly rated than Phenomena, my favourite Argento so far. I found it pretty rubbish. In fact I think Mother of Tears is better and that gets so much bad press, some unwarranted.

I'm a fountain of blood
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[–] mulholland_empire 13 years ago

really????? mother of tears better than tenebrae?

[–] PoppyTransfusion 13 years ago

Let me be more specific: I like Mother of Tears better than Tenebrae. I'm not going to claim one is objectively better than the other ...

I'm a fountain of blood
In the shape of a girl

[–] mulholland_empire 13 years ago

ok well thats fine. dnt get wrong i liked mother of tears, but i cant even compare it to tenbrae.

[–] PoppyTransfusion 13 years ago

In time my opinion may change as it's occurred to me that I watched Mother of Tears with very low expectations and was pleasantly surprised, whereas I had very high expectations of Tenebrae and was disappointed.

Mind you I really like two of the deaths in MoT better than any of the deaths in Tenebrae and I like Asia Argento too.

I'm a fountain of blood
In the shape of a girl

[–] mwhite182 13 years ago

This is better than Profondo Rosso. I can't believe people considee that his best. Suspiria and Tenebre are neck and neck in terms of being the best.

I think Tenebre perfects what Profondo Rosso set out to do. There was something about the pacing in Profondo Rosso and I couldn't get into it. I think Tenebre was a good mystery with some great chase/death scenes. And the ending was quite a shocker. I think what most people find so memorable about Profondo is, was the way they revealed the killer and the "painting" that was missed. But I found a good portion of that movie boring, but not with this one.

That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die.

[–] mulholland_empire 13 years ago

i would go ahead and say teneabre and suspira are the best, deep red comes very close tho.

[–] birdguhl 13 years ago

You just perfectly summed up why I think Tenebre is far superior to Deep Red. THANKYOU! Couldn't have done it better myself.

I agree I found Deep Red to be lacking in those moments that make you sit on the edge of your seat, it was something to do with the pacing. I also found the acting to be quite bad...

The camera work is Tenebre paired with possibly Goblin's best soundtrack (which is saying a lot) really makes Tenebre what it is in my opinion... I found it visually very exciting to watch.

[–] campbellgrg4 13 years ago

Tenebre is my first Argento film (and a bloody good one to start with, I guess). A very gripping mystery, the plot I thought was solid throughout. I can't really complain about little plot holes here and there because, frankly, every film has them. Peter Neal's background, of regressing a murder he committed, causing him to go insane, I thought was realised very well. The whole ending was stunning. When the detective is standing in the middle of the room, bends down and Peter Neal's there! Great moment, though I half expected it cause you could see bizarre movement at the detective's ear. The whole dog chase scene was crazy, crazy good too. And Jane's death scene. The panning over the house, before the lesbians are killed. All great.

The only thing that distracted me a little was the soundtrack. A lot of people on here seem to love it, though. Maybe it'll grow on me on second viewing, but saying that the dream melodies were chilling to the bone.

'To God there is no zero'

[–] megaruda 13 years ago

I think this is more enjoyable than deep red, what bothers me is the ending...
spoilers duh!:

The way he dies and the woman screaming was so annoying... i think there could of been a more elegant way to end it or at least lower down the volume of the screams.
He did something cool tho, i sort of found that out but i was not sure because of the scene someone mentioned where he kills the actual killer i was like
nah it can´t be him cause it was imposible to do it so fast and then go back...

Better than Deep Red im not sure, i find Tenebrae more entertaining, but Deep Red has an unforgetable feel, atmosphere, an awesome killer and ending. Not to mention the first killing sequence, in Tenebrae most of the deads were normal except for Jane. I think is also true what someone else mentioned here there were too many characters.

My fav is Inferno anyways ^^ so underrated. THEY CALL US DEATH!

[–] cozmogrl1-1 13 years ago

I agree. I love Argento's style and Deep Red was amazing, as was Suspiria, and Inferno(i love his use of primary colors and dreamlike atmosphere) but yes, Tenebre was very disjointed, and too many characters--not enough focus. Also, I guessed it was the writer before I even turned it on. Im kinda annoyed at myself for guessing right cuz it left all suspense out. Looking forward to seeing more of his films, as I ordered a bunch more. But didnt care for this one.

[–] franzkabuki 13 years ago

Out of the 3 Argento films I´ve had the dubious fortune of seeing, that early Crystal Plumage thing is the one most reminiscent of solid cinema to be reckoned with - and Tenebre the lamest with Suspiria occupying the middle ground. All the typical earmarks of Argento´s work are present in this number here, and quite amplified, too - the awkwardly silly dialogue, bland & occasionally goofy acting, chaotic story, an almost complete disregard for that nuisance called character development, horror scenes that have an unfortunate habit of turning into comedic setpieces (the standout in these regards has to be the hacking of that brunette chick towards the end which seemed like something straight out of a Monty Python sketch with an extremely obviously fake forearm spurting blood like a fountain)... you name it, it´s all there. In fact, the entire picture kinda looks like it´s been directed by a 12-year old with a hard-on. Sure, there are some effective scenes and transitions, mainly whenever the camera´s prowling to the beat of some funky early-eighties thang, but these kinds of successes are few and far between. In short, the more I see of Argento, the more puzzling his reputation as some kinda shock-horror master gets as I´m yet to see a single scene from him that´s genuinely scary - and building atmosphere doesn´t really seem to be his forte, either. And god forbid he would actually have anything of substance to communicate.

"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

[–] asktheages 13 years ago

Yeah, this is a terrible piece of schlock and Argento is extremely hit-or-miss (and even his "hits" are hardly masterpieces). What's interesting is that this film was shot by Luciano Tovoli, who also shot Suspiria and The Passenger, yet this movie looks cheap and ugly, made-for-TV almost.

Definitely check out Deep Red though. It's probably Argento's most effective film, is genuinely eerie and has a fantastic soundtrack. I recommend seeing the shorter US cut as opposed to the longer director's version though, as the former is lean and taut whereas the latter has some unnecessary stretches of dialogue and irritatingly skips between Italian and English audio.

Then there's also Phenomena -- which is probably one of the most interesting (and downright bizarre) bad movies ever made. It truly must be seen to be believed. Fairy-tale Swiss Alps setting... a wheelchair-bound Donald Pleasence and his killer pet chimp... Schoolgirl Jennifer Connolly who can communicate telepathically with insects... Motorhead and Iron Maiden played on the soundtrack over ostensibly sad/dramatic scenes for no discernible reason... and of course, the usual Argento "murderer on the loose" stuff... It's a hell of a film to hear about for the first time while on psilocybin mushrooms. But that's another story.

[–] franzkabuki 13 years ago

Donald Pleasence, Motorhead and Iron Maiden, did you say? That phenomenae may indeed require some studying...

"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] LeonardPine 13 years ago

Tenebre works better on repeat viewings. Its now one of my favourite Argento films. Love to see it on Bluray.

"Charlie don't surf!"

[–] armanmarok 12 years ago

I agree with this. Tenebre is pretty much the most brilliant giallo I've ever seen. It never bores you even after you have watched it a dozen times.

[–] Rvrgm 12 years ago

I found the ending to be absurd.

I think it's funny you say that in comparison to DEEP RED which is wholly absurd - that a woman killing to cover her tracks would also go to the lengths of hanging dolls around the crime scene and sending in wind up puppets to freak her victims out.

Dario's films are, by nature, thoroughly absurd.

Look at the motivations for almost EVERY killer - it almost always boils down to "witnessed a murder, so became a murderer myself."

I'd say most of his films fall apart in the final minutes.

[–] devastation_x 12 years ago

I think this one is very simple, albeit formulaic. Everything starts with a victim character setup: & then the killing. But with that its simply fun. The killing scenes are fairly brutal, if not inventive. No its not high art that maybe Suspiria is. It doesn't seem to me that is Tenebrae's intent. Argento is very hit or miss for me, and this one is definitely a hit. I like its simplicity. I like the brutality it depicts. And the music is another bonus. I like other Argento's to one degree or another, but this one is a favorite of mine. I think other Argento's like Hitchcock are far far far worse then this. If You're expecting some sort of artistic horrific masterpiece I think you're expecting far too much from this. Its much more visceral but much more direct.

[–] latherzap 12 years ago

I think all of Argento's movies are guilty of exdimlight's criticisms. But for sheer entertainment value, Tenebre is definitely my favorite.

[–] ppitta2 12 years ago

I agree. The thing that ruined "Deep Red" was its running time.127 minutes,which made the pacing and action very slow.The murders were far and few between and there were too many talky and drawn out scenes in the movie.The murders themselves were good but it seemed like it took forever for them to come.

[–] BrokenMirrorsbrokenMinds 12 years ago

It may not be his best film technically, but I can understand why a lot (myself included) probably prefer it as their favourite.

-amazing, addictive score
-kills come fast
- the dog sequence. *beep* sweet. never seen anything like it in a movie.
- A twist ending I did not see coming.