MovieChat Forums > Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (1982) Discussion > How does Khan know about Niba and Antare...

How does Khan know about Niba and Antares 'Maelstrom'?


Yes, yes, it's a 'classic' line, basically modernized version of what Ahab says in Moby Richard, and no one would be better suited to saying it than Ricardo (almost Richard himself!). His performance is also very much perfect for it, even though it comes off a bit 'staged' that someone would say this kind of pretentious, strange line organically, but whatever.

However, does it make any sense?

Khan was first a powerful 'Warlord' of sorts on Earth - no space travels for him back then. He was subsequently 'cryogenically frozen' (both the term and concept are wrong, but whatever), and sent into space with his loyal crew, where, centuries later, the Enterprise crew found him in suspended animation.

After the 'dramatic events', he was exiled onto Ceti Alpha V, if memory serves.

Then he suddenly knows about 'Niba' and wants to go 'around' things a lot before giving up Kirk. Now, 'Perdition' means 'Hell' (even though it's ridiculously archaic term that I bet many people today wouldn't know, so the chances that some powerhungry megalomaniac in 1990s would just casually know about this word is a bit odd), so we're left with two cosmological things that Khan... SOMEHOW?! knows about.

01) Niba and its moons. How does Khan know about Niba? How does he know Niba has moons, or that the area of Niba is traversible? Where did he obtain this information in all his NON-SPACETRAVELS? He didn't even read about planets or solar systems when he was aboard the Enterprise, he seemed to mainly focus on 'technical manuals' (which should be federation secrets you don't just hand out to any random visitors, for crying out loud! There are even EPISODES where they try to protect some other people finding out about how the Enterprise works and so on)

When did he have time to study these 'irrelevant facts' about other planets and solar systems that he might never even visit? Why would someone like Khan 'waste his time' with this stuff?

Did Kirk give him some star charts with Moby Richard to read? Seems a bit weird Kirk would even HAVE any books to give him, as we are supposed to be 'in the future', where everything is in the computer's databanks, and so on, but that can be explained - just a bit weird.

02) Antares Maelstrom?

Now, Antares does exist as a twin-star system. It seems, however, to be a very stable, quiet, slow, almost boring system where nothing that interesting happens. Since when does it suddenly develop not only Maelstroms, but ones big and famous enough to be quoted by someone that has NOT REALLY EVER TRAVELED IN SPACE beyond either being in effective coma or infighting aboard the Enterprise. His tiny space excursions certainly couldn't have afforded him all this information.

Also, what kind of sense does it make to talk about Antares as a place that has Maelstroms? I know this is the future, but then there's again the question; how does Khan even know about Antares? It's conceivable he studied astronomy while on Earth, but that was a long time ago, and would this kind of megalomanic dictator-wannabe really have that kind of inclination that most dictators would consider a waste of time? It's possible, but it seems a little off-character for Khan.

I think what ACTUALLY happened was, they wanted a 'modernized version' of Ahab's rant from the book, so they simply changed a few words and then told Ricardo to read it as if he was Ahab, and that's all the thought that went into it.

BTW, what is Niba, and why is it famous enough for not only someone like Khan to know about it, but for his audience to know enough about it for his weird rant to even make any sense to them? Otherwise, why even say it like that? If he's not gonna make any sense, he might as well replace those real things with imagined things and lose nothing of essence. If his audience is going to be puzzled about 'Niba' and Antares Maelstrom', they would be puzzled no matter whether he used real planet/star names or imagined ones.

This kind of 'fun idea' often makes no sense in movies, and so it is with this case as well. Khan is a great character and no one could play him as well as Ricardo, but thinking from 'how did he get this knowledge' perspective, it just doesn't make sense.

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Niba and its moons. How does Khan know about Niba? How does he know Niba has moons, or that the area of Niba is traversible? Where did he obtain this information in all his NON-SPACETRAVELS?


Avortac4... it's called pillow talk - Khan was married to a 23rd Century woman who had a career travelling space on a starship. Jesus, are you really this stupid?????

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No need for name calling. The OP probably just didn’t think of that.

Actually with Khan’s super intellect, I wouldn’t be surprised if he was a speed reader and tried to learn as much as he could about star systems, since he WAS planning to hijack the Enterprise.

The big question I always wonder about is HOW did his crew become younger and blond ten years later?😁

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The OP probably just didn’t think of that.


Which is what's amazing. This dude sits on his toilet thinking and thinking and trying to figure out what doesn't "make sense" in movies so he can trash them here like he's some kind of savant thinking of things no one thought of, yet he didn't think of *that*?

Instead of posting this as a question such as "Hey, does anyone know how Khan could have known about the Antares Maelstrom when he was born in the 20th century?", he posts these ridiculous "doesn't make sense" rants which aren't funny or clever.

I don't think there's a movie or TV show that doesn't require a bit of suspension of disbelief, but to constantly poke at these movies like they're a doctoral dissertation that needs to be completely accurate is, frankly, stupid.

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How do you know where he was sitting when he wrote that? LOL. But maybe constipation was making him cranky and nitpicky.

I am familiar with Trek fans who go absolutely ape over every tiny detail as if the show WAS a doctoral dissertation! Obviously not, since sometimes the so called “science” on the show was really bad.

One thing that stood out to me as dumb and not something Spock would say occurs in the original TV episode about Khan.

He says, “Superior intellect breeds superior ambition.”

I know a writer wrote it, but Spock wouldn’t say it. It is not logical to make such a blanket statement.

I think almost everyone knows some really smart people who are the laziest f###s around. 😁. They have no ambition. And some people have limited intellect or actual talent, But they make up for it by working very hard.

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Maybe you're not familiar with Avortac, but he's posted a hundred or more of these same "doesn't make sense" posts. If it was just one, I'd have ignored it.

Check his posting history.

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Yes, I guess that I am not familiar with this person. Although I have seen long posts similar to this one before. Maybe it was him.

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