MovieChat Forums > Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (1982) Discussion > Training Ship

Training Ship

posted 11 years ago by reddkryten
22 replies | jump to latest

Pardon me if this has been asked before. I did try searching, but couldn't find the answer.

In Star Trek: The Motion Picture, the Enterprise recieves a major upgrade. The shio should be state of the art and ready for years of service. So why is it that a few short years later, it is now a teaching ship.

I would imagine that old, run down ships are used for teaching. Or does starfleet have a policy that all ships must give up a few months for training between missions?

[–] angmc43 11 years ago

The novelization for STAR TREK III mentions that despite the upgrade, Starfleet still considered Enterprise an old ship ready for the scrapheap. It took the influence of Admiral Kirk that the ship be saved for training missions. The damage inflicted by Khan overrode that plan.

[–] AgentSparkyX 11 years ago

also Star Trek:TPM was set only 3 1/2 years after the final episode of TOS so there's a bigger time gap between ST:TMP and TWOK than most people believe.

[–] bjlevine 11 years ago

There is at least an eight year gap between the events of TMP and TWOK.

"Live long and suck it, Zachary Quinto!"

[–] Porpoise01 11 years ago

yes, several years have passed between TMP and TWOK.

It also works thematically... Kirk is dealing with the fact he's past his prime, it reinforces it that his ship is also considered old, obsolete.

"After years of fighting with reality, I am pleased to say that I have finally won out over it."

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] monstermayhem32 10 years ago

I think twelve years have passed.

[–] davcamp2 10 years ago

I didn't know that... that makes it so much more interesting. Was there a star date or something that I missed?

Search for every hotel, every vacation rental, every couch everywhere at www.AllTheRooms.com

[–] steelywulf 10 years ago

Not sure where this can be confirmed by Star Trek canon, but the trivia for TMP says that it takes place in 2273, and TWOK in 2285.

[–] bjlevine 10 years ago

Which would make it longer than 15 years between Space Seed and TWOK.

Kirk: "There's a man I haven't seen in 15 years who's trying to kill me."

👷👳
Bob the Builder and Hadji walk into a bar...

[–] steelywulf 10 years ago

That would put Space Seed in 2270. TMP was set only a few years after the series ended.

[–] bjlevine 10 years ago

At least 6 years between Space Seed and TMP.

👷👳
Bob the Builder and Hadji walk into a bar...

[–] axeman97 10 years ago

Yeah, I totally get what you're saying. Even though some eleven years have passed between TMP and TWOK, I still find it hard to believe that Starfleet would take all that time redesigning and refitting the Enterprise, only to have here sidelined to cadet training in such a short time (on the other hand, it does serve as a good narrative device for TWOK's storyline and plot themes).

With all this in mind, I would love to know what happened during that 11 year time gap between TMP and TWOK, when Kirk was supposed to have taken the refited Enterprise out for two new five year missions.

If for nothing else, I've always wanted a canonical explanation as to why the Enterprise's bridge and hallways (and crew's uniforms) appeared so differently in the TMP than they did in TWOF and TSFS.

[–] bjlevine 10 years ago

I had assumed around 7 years between Space Seed and TMP and 8 years between TMP and TWOK, leaving time for a second five year mission. The third 5 year mission is supposedly between TFF and TUC. That timeline seems to make the most sense to me.

👷👳
Bob the Builder and Hadji walk into a bar...

[–] magolding 10 years ago

also Star Trek:TPM was set only 3 1/2 years after the final episode of TOS so there's a bigger time gap between ST:TMP and TWOK than most people believe.

the official chonrology of Star trek is inaccurate becaus eof various factors which fans usually ignore and the Chronology writers ignored.

STTMP is not "only 3 1/2 years' after the ened of the series". It is 2 1/2 years after Kirk became Chief of Starfleet Operatins and also 2 1/2 years since Kirk was in space. There is no information about how much time, if any elapsed between the end of the series and Kirk becoming chief of starfleet operations.

The gap between "Space Seed", a first season episode, and STWOK is 15 years according to several statements in the moive, but STFF, set just a few months later, is seemingly 20 years after "Balance of Terror", another first season episode.

I suspect that the writers knew that STWOK was filmed about 15 years after "Space Seed" and that STFF was filmed about 23 years after "Balance of Terror" and forgot that the fictional time between STWOK and sTFF was only a few months.

Anyway, there were 15 or possibly 20 years between the first season that the movies during the 1980s, which thus could have been more than 10 or 15 years after STTMP (but might not have been that long after it).

[–] magolding 10 years ago

Even though some eleven years have passed between TMP and TWOK, I still find it hard to believe that Starfleet would take all that time redesigning and refitting the Enterprise, only to have here sidelined to cadet training in such a short time

The canonical evidence for the time between the series, STTMP, and the movies in the 1980s is vague and more contradictory than the official chronology indicates. Thus "eleven years" needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

With all this in mind, I would love to know what happened during that 11 year time gap between TMP and TWOK, when Kirk was supposed to have taken the refited Enterprise out for two new five year missions.

If for nothing else, I've always wanted a canonical explanation as to why the Enterprise's bridge and hallways (and crew's uniforms) appeared so differently in the TMP than they did in TWOF and TSFS.

There is no canonical evidence whether Kirk's five year mission during TOS was the only five year mission ever or every starship in that era always went on five year missions or whether the truth was somewhere in between.

[–] jakeconhale 9 years ago

One idea: perhaps the refit didn't work as well as intended.

It was a major upgrade, involving outright replacing just about everything we could see, possibly the entire saucer section along with the nacelles and such. perhaps some structural flaw emerged afterwards, it wasn't as capable as ships built from scratch around the principles the refit hoped to introduce. Then, rather than scrap a decent but not great ship, it was put out to pasture as a training ship.

Jake Meridius Conhale, at your service!
"Old Man" of the BSG (RDM) boards.

[–] 762rk95 9 years ago

USS Enterprise is 40 years old ship despite being modernized in The Wrath of Khan.

It entered service in 2245. Kirk took over it's command in 2265, TOS and TAS take place between that and 2270. TMP happens in 2273 or 2274. ST2's and ST3's events take place in 2285.

[–] bjlevine 9 years ago

Are you sure about that last date? Kirk states that it was 15 years between Space Seed and TWOK.

👷👳
Bob the Builder and Hadji walk into a bar...

[–] 762rk95 9 years ago

Yes. It happens in march 2285 according to official Star Trek encyclopedia and chronology. Because huge part of dates in Trek being given only retroactively and to trying to make things make sense there are tons and tons of slight contradictions because of huge number of writers involved in all movies and TV-shows.

Basically assuming Space Seed happened 2267, that quote you mentioned would put it into 2282. But then we ran into that Romulan ale given to Kirk by Bones as birthday gift is from 2283.

[–] persen1 9 years ago

Dates can't be trusted in the old Trek timeline. Every producer and director that has been on Trek productions, did not care about continuity and eventually Braga and Berman decided to shove it over the edge to become one huge mess.

Besides in Star Trek III, Admiral Morrow tells Kirk, that the Enterprise is 20 years old and that's why there was going to be no refit.

[–] bjlevine 9 years ago

Even though every Trek fan knows that the Enterprise was at least 30 years old.

20 Fake CJs Ignored (and counting)

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]