RACISM! - Ragtime (1981) Discussion

[–] Brendan3 18 years ago

I think you're reading too much into this. Many films list their cast alphabetically... especially in large ensemble pieces like this. Do you have any actual reason to believe they listed the cast alphabetically to avoid putting his name first? It seems you're suggestion of irony is implying that lising the cast alphabetically is racist.

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[–] mariposa-9 18 years ago

Yes, many films do list the cast alphabetically, but do you think it's just a coincidence in this case?

The execs at the studio probably figured they couldn't put an unknown black actor at the top of the credit sequence, so they came up with the alphabeticized credit sequence. As a result, Rollins is listed as a supporting actor, instead of the lead actor; which he obviously was.

That's pretty horrifying considering Rollins powerful performance, and particularly, the subject matter of the film.

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[–] valjeanlover 17 years ago

If it wasn't a coincidence, I don't think they did it because he was an unkown BLACK actor, I think it was just because he was an unknown actor. The same way when they put out DreamGirls last year, they listed Beyonce as the leading actress, when the character Effie (played by Jennifer Hudson who had never been in a film before) is clearly at least as big if not bigger in the film than the character Deena, who Beyonce played. In the Broadway version, Effie is always listed as the lead character, but they listed Beyonce's character as the lead character in the film because was more marketable than Jennifer Hudson. Also, it's easier for an unknown actor to win a Best Supporting Actor award over a more famous performer than it is for them to win for Best Lead Actor over a more famous actor.

The more he bleeds, the more he lives
He never forgets and he never forgives

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[–] Mighty_Duck_4 17 years ago

Exactly, studios always go with the biggest names to draw in an audience, and the bigger stars usually get the top nod from the academy.

Look at the Godfather, Pacino was obviously the main character in the film. But who gets top billing and a win for best actor in a leading role, while Pacino only gets a nomination for supporting actor?

PS: This is what part of the alphabet would look like if Q and R didn't exist.

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] mariposa-9 17 years ago

I think because of the subject matter of the film (a black man attempting to find justice), and his performance being so STRONG, they should have took a chance, let the film stand on it's own, and list him as the lead actor. But the studio execs proved themselves to be hypocrites. "Yeah, we'll do a film about this book, but do you think we're gonna give this unknown nigr top billing? No way!"

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[–] Melissa_Antoinette_Garza 17 years ago

You're an idiot.

Racism is a REAL issue, and one that plagues us today. You're belittling it by attempting to show it where it does not exist. I hate this nonsense. I have marched on the streets in NYC right after 9/11 to protest against racism and discrimination. This is not racism! It was a marketing move which in no way was indicated by color.

If you want to discuss racism, let's discuss the way Sidney Poitier was treated because of the roles he played, or the way Bill Cosby is criticized for speaking his mind. That's disgusting. WE live in a society so petrified to speak up, that we allow people to cry "racism," "sexism," or plain ol' "discrimination" whenever things don't work in their favor. All of these things exist and it sucks, but oh well, Malcolm X and The Black Panther Party didn't risk their lives (and lose their lives)so you could twist racism into every situation when it obviously does not exist.

You are the reason stereotypes exist, and the reason phrases like the "race card" are made famous. Congratulations.

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] Melissa_Antoinette_Garza 17 years ago

First of all racism is a real issue! In several US states, interracial marriage is still illegal! The negative stereotypes perpetuated on television are racist! The fact that one of the top discussions about Obama's campaign is "Is America Ready for a Black President," is racist. It's a systematic and a societal problem.

By the way, I don't listen nor do I watch Bill O'Reilly. I wouldn't waste my time on him.

Can you read? Do you know the definition of racism? It states that racism is "Discrimination or prejudice based on race." One can have racist views against their own race...as was the case with both of my examples; Poitier and Cosby

Firstly, I was supporting Sidney Poitier against the racism that was thrown his way. Have you read his biographies? Do you read at all? Bill Cosby too was called a racist against his own race because of his views of America, which were based on statistical facts. The fact that he was labeled a racist and even called an Uncle Tom on many occasions (google it and see how many instances come up instantly and from different sources) because of his views is RACIST.

My guess is the reason you don't respond to my comments on the Panthers and X is because you don't know the history and are afraid to step to the plate because you're ignorant.

I am a white bitch. I'm a Constitutionalist, not a Liberal. I'm not holier than thou but I am better than 95% of society because society is filled with morons such as yourself who haven't a clue of what's going on in the world.

And I love how you spelled "ho" like it was a piece of gardening equipment. It was a great conclusion..in case I didn't already know the IQ of the person I was debating with.

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] Melissa_Antoinette_Garza 17 years ago

Are you capable of backing up any contrite, idiotic argument you attempt to make??

You say that the question "IS America Ready for a Black President" a rational pertinent question but you don't back it up at all. Why?

The reason it is racist is because the media uses it to place that idea into the forefront of the viewer instead of primarily focusing on the issues at hand. Let's examine the question and the assumptions made. The first obvious assumption is that a possible answer to the question is "no, America is not ready." So, then we ponder why? It is fair to say judging on historical political campaigns that those who wouldn't vote for Obama because he was black wouldn't vote for a democrat anyways. Generally, bigots side with the Republicans. So, the underline question therefore cannot logically be "Is America READY TO VOTE for a Black President." NO, instead it is, "Is America ready for a Black President to serve in the office," which therefore poses, why wouldn't America be? What would be the political difference between someone white in office and someone black in office that would constitute the question. Any possible answer is an assumption based on race. It's stereotypical and the mere posing of the question by the media has an agenda that is racist. Anyone with an IQ over 70 could see that, I'm not surprised you don't.

I'm not comparing what the Panthers and what X went through to what Black America is facing today. DID you read my original post? Can you read? I was stating that people who try to throw race in an issue where it does not belong, a.e. in the casting call of RAGTIME, belittles what the Panthers and X fought for. Frankly, I don't care where you grew up, your basic comprehension skills are awful.

Not once did I ever say I sympathized with poor black people. In fact, I think if someone wants to succeed in society it is fairly easy to do so regardless of race. That wasn't my point. My point is that racism and classism are real issues that plagues society.

Why don't you read upon the political move that created different prison sentences in relation to crack vs. cocaine in the 80s. If one was caught with crack though the same substance that person received more prison time. Why? Statistically crack was found in urban lower financial status environments and cocaine was used by upper class. That's endorsed classism by the government.

And how about jail? Why is it that when found guilty of a crime black people typically get 3 times longer jail sentences? Take a look at our prisons and tell me that racism is not a societal problem.

And again, you want to play the race card by calling me a racist because you didn't have the basic understanding to even get the point of my posts. Sorry princess, that doesn't work on me either. I know exactly who I am and I am superior to you in every way that matters.

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[–] Takeda_Osaka 9 years ago

in 1967, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that interracial marriage must be allowed in all 50 states (Loving vs. Virginia).

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[–] schappe1 17 years ago

Green. Their decisions are made based on that. Only famous actors will get anything but alphabetic billing in an ensemble piece like this. I fully agree that Rollins character is the most interesting character in the film but names are used to draw people into the theater. Star billing came after this. Even Cagney wasn't a star in his first film, Sinner's Holiday, or, indeed, in any of his first four films. But he was the best thing in them.

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[–] Gloede_The_Saint 17 years ago

Actually I would call the actor who played the head of the household who took the baby in the lead actor, ironically his name escapes me but he had MUCH more screentime than Rollins!!! In fact Dourif, "the guy I would call the lead character"'s brother-in-law had about as much screentime as Rollins too, probably more.

As for the alphabetical listing it's very common for productions like this where there are few big stars (at least in large roles) and in which there are multiple storylines. I read some of your posts above mine and I agree with you, it was not a coincident, they put it alphabetically in respect too all their "lead" actors.

Somebody here has been drinking and I'm sad to say it ain't me - Allan Francis Doyle

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[–] marvelass 15 years ago

"In several US states, interracial marriage is still illegal!"

Interracial marriages are not illegal anywhere in the USA anymore. In 1967 the US Supreme Court declared anti-miscegenation laws unconstitutional thanks to Loving v. Virginia.

Gay marriage on the other hand...

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[–] daedalus1337 14 years ago

Oooh, a moron crying foul over some non-existent 'racism' on an IMDb forum. What else is new?

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] Trippetta10 14 years ago

Cuckoo, cuckoo....I wonder if the self-described "white bitch" is still around.

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[–] rtw416 9 years ago

Moses Gunn,who played Booker T.Washington,was the second name in the credits-after Brad Dourif....so,I don't think alphbetizing the credits was done intentionally to bury names

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[–] 9 years ago

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[–] kevin-bergin 9 years ago

Long time, but as I recall the producers/studio wanted to try and get a nod for James Cagney. Hey, he was 80 and had been out of the business for 20+ years. Anyway, they seemed to put all their energy there. I guess this was the best they could do.
Shame, if Cagney had gotten a nod that would have been a very nice tribute.

"It's the system, Lara. People will be different after the Revolution."

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[–] mariposa-9 9 years ago

Why is it that every single time there's a movie with a black actor somebody has to scream racism.

Umm, look at the date of the original post. That's right, about 9 years ago. back then everyone didn't "scream racism". Having said that, the post is still valid. Howard E. Rollins was the star of Ragtime. Not a supporting actor. Considering the subject matter of the film, it's particularly glaring.

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[–] wylierichardson-966-922691 9 years ago

Well, Timothy Hutton was the clear star of "Ordinary People", but he was nominated - and won - in SUPPORTING. Since Tim is a white guy, I would love to see the OP twist herself into knots explaining that!

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[–] mariposa-9 9 years ago

Nice try, but there is no way they're going to give starring billing to an unknown, Timothy Hutton, in a movie with Donald Sutherland, Mary Tyler Moore, and Judd Hirsch. And it's been a long time, but I don't know if Hutton was clearly the star. It probably was mostly an ensemble piece. The point is, Ragtime's theme: A black man seeking justice... Think before you reply.

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[–] Owlwise (1536) 4 years ago

In his first role, Hutton had to hold his own with such gifted actors as Sutherland, Moore, and Hirsch. He more than held his own with them & delivered a leading performance.

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[–] liscarkat (18977) 4 years ago

Yes, of course, it makes perfect sense. A large group of Hollywood leftists conspired to list the cast alphabetically just to screw a black man out of the recognition he deserved. Logical.

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