I love this movie and Nicholson is spectacular but it's clearly nothing to do with the book. The emptiness of the horror, the impossible geography, the many subtle hints to space travel. What the hell was it really about? The cold war? Communism? Drugs? Anybody have an idea what I mean?
shareIt's a King novel and a familiar trope about a writer losing his mind. It's the same story as King's other novels adapted to film (The Dark Half, Secret Window).
shareWell, like all Kubrick films it's about civilization being a thin layer of ice upon a deep ocean of chaos and darkness (in the words of Werner Herzog), about well-laid rational plans being derailed by primal instincts and impulses, about Man as an ape trying to transcend his apish nature and (more often than not) failing, about conditioning by society to channel Man's base and violent instincts into violence deemed acceptable by society.
shareIMHO it's really about the deep fear buried in all our subcondcipus minds - the child's fear of losing parental support.
It's not really about Jack's madness, it's about Danny's fear of a parent who's lost his mond. That's what grabs us.
I think it was meant to be a more Hollywood style horror story by Kubrick rather than the domestic thriller tone that was in King's novel. Kubrick pretty much makes Jack an actual villain from the get go who doesn't have much sympathy like the book and irredeemable.
I think the film is meant to focus much more on how a madman becomes even madder due to an unhealthy obsession with the hotel than the Overlook itself. Unlike the novel, Jack has more power to shine than Danny in the film, so the hotel would want Jack to remain the caretaker and get rid of Danny as a bonus. There's even a theory that the whole thing is in Jack's head, which Kubrick I don't think necessarily denied.
What fascinated Kubrick was the point where the psychic ends and the supernatural begins.
Kubrick is also obsessed (like Polanski) with great hidden powers that secretly control us - the ‘aliens’ and their obelisks in 2001, the secret society of perverted elites in Eyes Wide Shut, the mad politicians in the War Room in Strangelove etc etc. In The Shining the hotel is haunted by ghosts who are a residue of the evil events that occurred there, including the slaughter of Indians who objected to the hotel being built on their land.
The hotel’s history leaves traces ‘like burnt toast’ and gradually they psychically destroy Jack and possess him, turning him into a killer so that the evil can continue. At the end we see that Jack has been absorbed into the hotel’s dark history.
It is unconvincing to submit that a Director with such wild intelligence would build the foundation of their ideas within easily accessible paranoia. It's too blunt: there's never any mention about aliens, conspiracies, or the moon. But the story is so stark and cold, as if mankind might as well have been brought up there.
You do make a great point about the ending. Jack is not only absorbed; there is a message about something cyclical. We don't know what the horror was all about, but what can be sure, is that it will surely happen again, and that the perpetrator of the evil will hardly be brought to justice: instead, they shall be celebrated.
It is unconvincing to submit that a Director with such wild intelligence would build the foundation of their ideas within easily accessible paranoia.
It's too blunt:
there's never any mention about aliens, conspiracies, or the moon.
But the story is so stark and cold, as if mankind might as well have been brought up there.
Paranoia: you mention great hidden powers, the elites, politicians etc. Anyone can complain about powers beyond their vision hampering their success. That's why morons will blame everything on a secret conspiracy against them, which is what I mean by bluntness.
There is no mention about the such in The Shining, but it's so arid of meaning and filled with mystery that it might as well be about it. For all we know it could be a communist film wherein Jack represents the tortured proletarian and the hotel is about capitalist excess. That would be ridiculous, since there's no overt evidence of anything to do with communism.
Jack's possession, the Indians, the ghosts - these are all King's ideas. What Kubrick DOES with these symbols is baffling. A film about the supernatural is supposed to be dark, grisly and messy. The Shining is bright, clean and scientifically coordinated. That makes no sense. I'd wager this is more to do with an aspect of science and technology rather than or simply about secret conspiracies and the such.
Tricks of the mind.
shareSuperstition?
shareDelusions.
One can watch this film and make a strong case that all the visions and vocal hallucinations were just tricks of each character mind. The hallucinations were unique for each person and never shared by two characters at the same time.
The framed picture at the end gives the viewer the key.
The picture in the late 1920's was not actually Jack Torrance, just someone who LOOKED like Jack Torrance. The real Jack Torrance, wandering bored in the Overlook came across this picture. He dismissed it at first, but couldn't put it out of his mind. The picture gave Jack the delusional mental framework in his active creative mind that he was ALWAYS the caretaker.
Kubrick was smart enough not to make this "reality" case concrete, just as the "ghost/supernatural" case isn't concrete, giving each viewer different interpretations of this great film.
Nah. It’s easy enough to play that game with Jack, but what about the kid’s visions?
It’s about the kid’s supernatural power——-um, key point, it’s actually the TITLE!——which is also shared by the Halloran character.
It’s not all made up, my gosh why would Stephen King of all people write a story like this just to have it all be delusions? That would be pointless.
And in the film version there’s no doubt left to us that that is Jack in the photo by the way, Nicholson has a pretty recognizable mug.
There is doubt because that is impossible. It is possible that it was someone who looks just like Jack.
When Jack Torrance stumbled across that photo, isolated with no other men of his age to show it to, it was the seed that eventually led him to a full blown psychotic episode, one in which he was "always the caretaker".
Watching this Kubrick version,there is no concrete evidence that anything extraordinary happened, just a family slowing sinking into madness. By sharing their delusions,the viewer is just along for the ride.
Ghost unlocked the door from the outside.
Scatman Crothers' character received psychic warnings from the kid that he was in danger.
The hallucinations were unique for each person and never shared by two characters at the same time
There is no scene in the film the woman and Danny.
Danny enters 237, but the viewer never sees Danny and woman together.
The viewer may not see her, but Danny does. We know this because of the dialogue. Wendy says there is a crazy woman in the bathtub that tried to strangle Danny. That is the reason Jack goes to investigate, and he sees the same thing.
shareSo...in terms of a person going through a psychotic episode (Jack Torrance), it would be expected for him to see this woman, who changes from a naked woman into a rotting corpse.
The viewer never sees Danny and the woman together because if it was the same woman that would confirm the supernatural aspect of the story. If the viewer were to see Danny and a different woman, this would confirm that both Danny and Jack are hallucinating.
This little aspect of the film shows how well Kubrick was walking the line.
The supernatural element is confirmed when Dick Holloran uses his Shine to talk to Danny in his head, and then he gives us a whole exposition dump about what the Shining is. That alone should break the theory that they were all independently having delusions.
The viewer doesn’t see Danny and the woman, because the scene would be redundant in a movie that already doesn’t have enough time to explain everything that is going on. Regardless, we hear second hand what Danny experienced, Jack goes there and also sees her. Dick Holloran is also scared of something in that room, so it’s plausible that he has seen her too.
Dick Holloran is convinced that he has supernatural powers, but it's never confirmed by the viewer.
In the ice cream scene, Danny and Holloran never converse with telepathy. That would confirm the supernatural aspect.
I believe that Kubrick deliberately structured the film as to walk the line between a rational explanation (cabin fever/psychotic episode) and the supernatural.
Dick Holloran asks him is he wants ice cream with telepathy, and it’s shown from Danny’s POV. He also refers to Danny as Doc without anyone else saying it first. Then he exactly exactly why he was able to do it. It’s not ambiguous. They lay it all out there for you. There is no reason to doubt what Dick Halloran says, because he has already demonstrated some ability, and we’ve seen Danny have several visions by this point.
shareIt's for sure about cycles of abuse passed on from parents to children. With a haunted house framework. But there's plenty of other weird symbolic stuff in this film that simply eludes me.
shareThe film was not about "A past" as in one horrible past event in particular...it's a movie about "THE past" as in all past horrible events combined. Has subtle overtones to the slaughter of Native Americans, the Holocaust, and even child abuse. Wendy's reaction to finding out about Jack would be a typical person's reaction to finding out about the horrors of our past.
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