Does anyone want to discuss this remarkable movie? - The Ninth Configuration (1980) Discussion

[–] 20 years ago

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[–] 20 years ago

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[–] JimSpy 20 years ago

I think the point of the movie - as you say, sacrifice and redemption - came through loud and clear when Kane died (either at his own hand or the biker's, depending on which ending you prefer). I don't think the St. Christopher medal added anything that we didn't already know; whereas I think it detracted somewhat by introducing a metaphysical angle at the very end of what was up to that point just a philosophical story.

And by the way, enjoyment of the movie, and "getting it," do NOT depend on beliefs. As I say, I am a card-carrying atheist and I enjoyed the heck out of it. (But then, my 3rd favorite movie is Ben-Hur).

==JJS==

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[–] 20 years ago

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[–] JimSpy 20 years ago

<<it amazes me that you like this movie so much as an Atheist.>>

What's so amazing? I don't believe in ghosts either, but I loved "Ghost" and "Scrooged."

<<You are right understanding the basic elements and themes of the movie one does not need religious background (good/evil "I get the point") But in order to really explore this movie I believe so. >>

Do you think that only god-believers have special insight into the subtleties of redemption and salvation? Religion and spirituality are designed to speak to us on an emotional level, a level we all have "receptors" for, including atheists. Including me! The reasons for atheism are intellectual, not emotional. I loved Ninth Configuration with my heart. I do atheism with my head. Not in any way saying I'm smarter, just that I emphasize that element in my life, whereas the religious are so mesmerized by the warm fuzzies that they tune out the little voice in their brains that says, "Wait a sec, this doesn't make sense!"

<<All and all this movie gives a great argument for belief in God (Pens, molocules) and by looking at the goodness in man. >>

Apparently you haven't been paying attention to your own religion. It says that we are born sinful in God's eyes, and that all goodness comes from God. Goodness is not in our nature. I as a secular humanist believe that all the good you see being done by humans, comes from humans. (What a concept!) Same for all the acts of evil. Each of us has a lot of good in us, tempered by a little bit of evil (weakness, really). Its all a matter of allowing our good side to overcome our bad.

As for a great argument for belief in God, Col. Kane's line was very tempting the first time I heard it - "If you believe God doesn't exist because of all the evil in the world, then why don't you believe he does exist because of all the good?" Took me aback, until I realized that an ALL-GOOD God would not tolerate the slightest bit of evil in his universe

<<Now in one of your previous conversations you said how good a "good" god create evil, Well I find that interesting since I believe God cannot interfere in our affairs and gives us free will.>>

I'm not just talking about human acts, but acts of nature as well - can you say "tsunami"? No free will there...

dcb, my friend, I'll take this as far as you want, and I will remain respectful of you and your beliefs. I just want to warn you that I'm very good at this, and I don't relish the thought of making you question your faith. Just remember, you asked...

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[–] 20 years ago

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[–] JimSpy 20 years ago

I see, you're saying that I didn't like the ending because I'm atheist? The only way I can defend myself on that charge is to say that I loved the ending of Ben-Hur. The blood of Christ washing away the sins of the world. And the ending of "Ghost" - the implication that he went to heaven. I don't mind mystical endings, if they are in a proper context. This didn't appear to be a mystical movie until that scene. That's all. My objections are on purely artistic grounds, not anything to do with my beliefs. I can appreciate that you liked it as a Catholic, but that just makes it appear as if it were thrown in as a sop by Blatty to his fellow Catholics. In fact I understand he made another version without that last scene.

As to Baptism, do you really believe that the act of being dunked by a priest has an effect on a person's nature? Do you think that no unbaptized person would make the ultimate sacrifice that Kane did? (Perhaps not for the same reason he did, but what does that matter...) And if you agree that nonbelievers can be just as selfless as believers, then where do you suppose that selflessness comes from?

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[–] 20 years ago

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[–] JimSpy 20 years ago

Maybe most atheists don't "get it," but I was raised Catholic. I assure you I "got" it. I just think there may have been a way to bring across the same idea, without being so obvious about it.

Yes, there is another ending where Kane writes in the letter that it was the biker that mortally wounded him. It seems that Blatty himself couldn't decide exactly how to end it.

"All humans do good and evil at times in there life. This is the essence of free will. "

It is the essence of humanity, God or no God.

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[–] 20 years ago

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[–] JimSpy 20 years ago

Mark this date on your calendar folks...a Catholic and an atheist reach accord...

:-)

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[–] litltingod 20 years ago

I'm an agnostic and I adore this movie, as well as The Exorcist and The Exorcist III. I've read The Exorcist and Legion and found them fascinating.

"Violence is how men express romance on film." -Kurt Wimmer

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[–] s3050285 20 years ago

""If you think God doesn't exist because of all the bad things, why don't you think he DOES exist because of all the good things?" was not bad for pop-theology (until you remember that an all-good deity is not supposed to allow the existence of evil in the first place.) "

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That is a somewhat shallow explanation. I am not an athiest, nor a strong-willed Christian, more an agnostic with Christian leanings, and the way I would put it is thus:

The foundation stone of Christianity, is that humanity was created with the capacity to reason and the ability to choose (free will). True 'goodness' or 'righteousness' can only come if it is chosen, not forced. The fact that He (God) wishes us to do good, and not evil, is secondary, the fact that we can choose to do good ourselves makes it all the more worthwhile when we do, and proves our own individual morality to Him.

I would further suggest, that man's capacity for evil comes much more naturally that our capacity to do good, the latter is more socially contrived, whereas the former comes more instinctively.

Just food for discussion... I'm halfway through this movie at the moment, and won't have the chance to finish it until next week, but I must say I'm enjoying it a lot, and this is a great thread. :-)

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[–] litltingod 20 years ago

""If you think God doesn't exist because of all the bad things, why don't you think he DOES exist because of all the good things?" was not bad for pop-theology (until you remember that an all-good deity is not supposed to allow the existence of evil in the first place.) "

You're right about that, s3050. That guy is wrong and doesn't seem to have a strong understanding of Christianity. I too am an agnostic with Christian teachings. I was raised Roman Catholic. Blatty's argument for the eistence of God, spanning over The Exorcist, this movie, and The Exorcist III, is very good, is NOT pop theology, and has made me thingk a lot about the subject, somehting no priest has ever gotten me to do.

"Violence is how men express romance on film." -Kurt Wimmer

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[–] 20 years ago

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[–] litltingod 20 years ago

Who the hell are you?

"Violence is how men express romance on film." -Kurt Wimmer

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[–] 20 years ago

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[–] litltingod 20 years ago

Yeah this movie's wonderful.

"Violence is how men express romance on film." -Kurt Wimmer

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[–] conor_kiley 19 years ago

I too am an agnostic with Christian teachings. I was raised Roman Catholic. Blatty's argument for the eistence of God, spanning over The Exorcist, this movie, and The Exorcist III, is very good, is NOT pop theology, and has made me thingk a lot about the subject, somehting no priest has ever gotten me to do.

I'm dealving deep here but liked this bit. It sounded like something I might have written.

Now go on with your life reader.

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[–] Halfelf 19 years ago

My husband swears there was an inscription on the back of the medal. Is this the case and what was the inscription? Does anyone know?

"Life is hard, It's harder if you're stupid." - John Wayne

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[–] JimSpy 19 years ago

Your husband is correct. The inscription is how Cutshaw knew that it was HIS medal that was somehow returned to him from the beyond.

I think the inscription read, "I am a Buddhist. In case of emergency, please call a llama." Or something like that.

==JJS==

"Life is pleasant, death is peaceful. It's the transition that scares me." -- Isaac Asimov

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[–] 19 years ago

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[–] MorbidKittyProductions 19 years ago

actually my 'siggy' here is what was on the back of the medal :)

i love that line - i was rolling on the floor laughing just about lol

"I'm a Buddhist - In case of accident, call a Lama" (The Ninth Configuration)

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[–] keyser_soze_smokes 10 years ago

The one flaw was the ending, at least the ending I have on my copy, where Cutshaw finds the St. Christopher medal in the taxicab.

I saw the film yesterday for the first time and that was my very impression, with a slight detour: having not read the novel, I felt there was a lack of an in depth look at the other inmates, they seemed all interesting loons.

=======================================
When flesh hits the telepod.

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