A brilliant movie - Lion of the Desert (1981) Discussion

[–] Croncil 19 years ago

excellent movie.

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[–] PostGraduate 19 years ago

Yes excellent movie.

I know they went 35 milion to be so historic, but I found some historical flaws. Now I am not flaming the film, I loved it! One of my favorites. These are only for your personnal 'Trivia' indulgement:

- The Italian soldiers use Mauser rifles

- The Italian soldiers with the black cock feathers were called the 'Bersaglieri'. But they did not even enter Africa until 1941, while this was 15 years before 1941.

Interesting facts:

- The 'Prince' is Mussolini's son

- The soldiers with the black shirts and ties were then 'Baclshirt' legions.

- My great uncle was one of the guys who pulled out their knives in the beginning when Mussolini walked out into the hall. Now he wasn't one of those guys, but he was a Blackshirt.

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[–] nenue 19 years ago

Actually, Prince Amadeo, The 3rd Duke of Aosta, was the grandson of King Victor Emmanuel III. Mussolini had no royal blood.
The rifles were Mannlicher-Carcanos, which featured a simplified Mauser action and the Mannlicher loading system.

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[–] stefano-bigliardi 18 years ago

I think the name of the Prince was in fact AmEdeo, not 'Amadeo'.

By the way, the plot refers to Mussolini's 'reign', and, if this is not to be taken as a metaphor (a bad one, though), it's a VERY inaccurate definition of the fascist dictatorship, which actually entertained an ambiguous relationship with the weak Savoia monarchy, to which the Prince belonged.

Stefano

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[–] bajwa-1 18 years ago

The Duke of Aosta was the Italian Governor (General) of Ethiopia during WW 2 and surrendered to the 4th Indian Division.Incidentally unlike their poor performance in North Africa, the Italians fought very well in Ehtiopia.

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[–] Sid-Blitzen 18 years ago

"The Italian soldiers with the black cock feathers were called the 'Bersaglieri'. But they did not even enter Africa until 1941"

I have a book on Mussolini's invasion of Abyssinia in 1935, which has photos of Bersaglieri serving there.

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[–] mwitton 19 years ago

I have just seen this movie as it was featured as the closing film at the Arab Cinema Weekend 2006 held at Bafta in London. I can't understand why more isn't said of the qualities of this great film (direction, acting, cinematography) in the vein/tradition of 'Lawrence of Arabia'. It's a modern epic, yet no one seems to acknowledge others than David Lean or Lord Attenborough as having directed pictures of this scope. The loss of Mr Akkad, a man of evidently much vision, talent and enterprise is a loss for all who appreciate cinema and the understanding of other cultures and healing that it can bring.
Michelle Witton

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[–] nkeremozgur 19 years ago

This film is banned in Italy. Owning and showing it is a criminal offence, on the ground of "defamation of the armed forces.

Isn't it a shame that a European country censored a movie?

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[–] CmdrCody 19 years ago

While one of my favorites, too, one has to remember that Colonel Qaddafi, terrorist dictator of Libya, produced the picture.

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[–] edjavega 19 years ago

It is truly a well-made epic. A pity that it bombed.

But the problem is that:

1. no one in the Western world is generally interested in movies featuring Arab patriots fighting European forces; least of all, if it is bankrolled by Kadafi

2. it makes it worse (for box office appeal) that the Italians (Westerners) are depicted as the "bad guys" and the Arabs as good guys - whether or not this is historically accurate.

But where a historical epic has a Christian hero fighting Muslim forces (like EL CID), it could have a chance of success. But the other way around, not much. Just the plain truth.

Perhaps if it shows native American Indian populations in conflict with Europeans or white Americans (DANCES WITH WOLVES or some Colombus movie), or black African or Asian peoples fighting Western colonial domination (as in ZULU or GANDHI), it would be fine. But for some reason, Arabs vs. Westerners - where the Westerners are the VILLAINS - is not a bankable movie theme.

3. no one really has heard of Omar Muktar or General Graziani. In North Africa during the period, the exploits of other generals like Rommel or Patton might attract attention - and some movies have banked on it. But not figures which most are not familiar with.

But it does not detract from the fact that this was a very good movie! Anthony Quinn and Oliver Reed give towering performances. It is also amazing to see how good the make up was on Quinn as he really resembled the real life Omar Mukktar, whose picture is shown at the end of the film.

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[–] sarathy 18 years ago

I agree with you.,

Too bad., i dint even know about this movie, until the dvd shopkeeper recommended this movie to me. He mentioned that this is the best war movie he had seen till date., Iam very happy to watch such a GREAT MOVIE WITH GREAT MUSIC.

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[–] simosapien 18 years ago

edjavega, I think you nailed it !

If you guys think this about this movie, then you might wanna check "the battle of Algeria" or maybe Akkad's other movie "The Message" -Based on the story of Islam. all 3 movies are realy great, but they seem politicaly incorrect in the west.

By the way since you mentioned "El Cid." A few days ago I was watching a documentary called "When the Moors ruled in Spain" which you can find in Google video- a Spanish lady who is a Historian and a descendant of " Guzman El Bueno" said that El Cid is a Moor and his story was distorted by the Spaniards while in fact he was a Moorish mercenary who fought for the side that gave him the most money. In fact the name EL CID is in Arabic and it means "the Master" but somehow he ended up being 'the great Spaniard who crashed the evil moors' and rid his beloved Spain from them much like Guzman el bueno who is celebrated in Spanish history as well, but lately it was discovered that he was a Moor too and his grand-daughter herself who owns a whole archive of El bueno's transcripts said that her grand father was in fact a Moor and not a Spaniard at all but under the Inquistion when the Moors where either massacred or banished off Spain, the whole History was rewritten and it was made to appear that the Spaniards were the good side while the Moors - depicted as dark skined and barbaric while in fact they were the ones who introduced science and knowledge to Spain- as the bad guys. and It is celebrated every year in Spain in staged battles "moors versus Christians" all over Spain to this day.
Anyway, just check out the documentary in googles video and you'll see who's the real El Cid.

Maybe someday in the future when Omar Mukhtar will be made to be the Italian guy who fought against the barbaric Arabs, then this movie will get what it deserves. but as long As Mukhtar is a "rag****" then no 'civilized' movie goer will notice it.

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[–] edjavega 18 years ago

Simosapien, are you sure about that info about El Cid?

I do know that the Spanish distorted his legend a bit, all Europeans do, like the Brits with the story of King Arthur and the Knights , or the French Song of Roland where it appears that the good French Christian knights are ambushed by Moors when in history it was actually Basques who killed them.

So Rodrigo Díaz de Bivar was actually fighting for BOTH Christian and Moorish kings, like a true mercenary, whoever paid him more got his services.

I never heard of Guzmán El Bueno either. But I would say both he and El Cid were in fact Christians who just did a lot of killing for money.

As for the "dark Moorish" people, well, in southern Spain where there was a lot of Moorish influence, there really *are* a lot of "darker" Arab-looking types a la Antonio Banderas and Penelope Cruz. In the north, it's as if there are two Spains - the people there are very European in appearance, some even looking semi-Nordic. In varying degrees, same north-south distinction in appearance can be seen in Italy and Portugal and to a lesser extent France.

But there can be no doubt that while the white Europeans were living the Dark Ages before the Renaissance, it was the Moors in southern Europe who offered a very highly advanced civilization.

In LION OF THE DESERT, that is where Graziani completely gets it wrong. He thinks Italians as the modern descendants of the Romans had all the high culture when Omar Mukhtat's Arab peoples contributed so much to world civilization too.

Even in such relatively mundane matters as food, for example. Heck, shwarma and falafel can taste as good as pizza and pasta!

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[–] tushansoulboy 18 years ago

On the subject of misinformation did you know that pizza originated in North Africa and Marco Polo brought pasta to Italy from China!

I agree Omar Mukhtar is a very good film, sadly its messages are still relevant today.

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[–] edjavega 18 years ago

Pizza originated in North Africa?!

I thought in southern Italy (Naples) or among Italian Americans in New York.

So do north Africans still eat their version of pizza?

I think the only thing Marco Polo brought back from China was noodles, but not pasta as a whole.

Globalization occured even during those times, obviously. :)

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[–] balie 18 years ago

yea u r very correct i like omar mukhtar especially last diagolue after his death

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[–] sarathy 17 years ago

Yeah, It was really great!, i love each and every frame in this movie

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[–] Xcalat3 18 years ago

great one indeed

I Worship The Goddess Amber Tamblyn

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[–] agusdwikarna 18 years ago

Yes, this is no doubt one of the two great treasures from Mustafa Akkad. The other is The Message (Ar Risalah).

Love them so much.

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[–] logigamer 17 years ago

im 24, i just finish watching this movie and i most say is in top of the best movies i have seen yet.

its sad how still in this century we have wars against poor countrys just for ambitions and control, the world is a mess and sad to be born

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[–] izy56 17 years ago

I agree. It's one of my dad's favorites....Now I know why!
What a brilliant film! and have to say Anthony Quinn was absolutely fantastic.

Frankly My Dear I Don't Give a Damn

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[–] Godfather-1990 17 years ago

I've just seen it and it was such a masterpiece, I can't believe there are so many people who haven't watched it .

Last film seen

Lion of the Desert (1981) : 10/10

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[–] 17 years ago

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